Smid's Diplomacy Game Thread #1

[Gustaf]

I'd say option 3 is the most fair.

And I concur with Xahar that maps are needed.

[Gustaf]

Yeah, if he's not around, he's not around and we can cross that bridge when we come to it. I just haven't seen him on here in a bit.

Not what I meant actually.

omgententeomg!!1!

Btw, Smid I haven't played that much Diplomacy so I'm not sure if there are different sets of rules or anything but I would appreciate direction to an on-line rule book. I do know the rules I've played with but I don't know if those are standard or not.

[Gustaf]

Ok...so.

Someone should replace HappyWarrior. Are Muon or Jas interested in doing so? Secondly, someone should talk to Ben and see if he has any idea what he's doing. Maybe he missed the part where a province can only hold one unit or something.

[Gustaf]

Jas - if I don't hear from Happy Warrior within the week (same time frame as lodging of orders) I'll let you know and you can take over France, as per Muon and Gustaf's suggestion.

Are you gonna allow Jas to negotiate and turn in orders for the current turn? Because I think allowing France to miss 2 turns would be too much of a drawback. I would suggest that in a game this complex where your participation matters so much to the other players, you don't get that many chances. At the very least, if Jas is up to it, he should be able to conditionally negotiate and give orders during this week.

[Gustaf]

Hm. I Pmed Smid yesterday about my builds hoping he would allow them (I of course forgot about the provisional builds thing). If he doesn't I guess I'm screwed due to that silly mistake...

[Gustaf]

Hm. I Pmed Smid yesterday about my builds hoping he would allow them (I of course forgot about the provisional builds thing). If he doesn't I guess I'm screwed due to that silly mistake...

I take it Ben's a pacifist.

Funniest statement ever said about me.

Yes. How about you make some correct moves this time?

I have two questions: one, did Gustaf order his builds before Smid issued his maps?  If so, Gustaf's builds should be allowed, as Gustaf didn't have the unfair advantage of seeing everyone else's builds.

Secondly: Would Ben please submit orders next turn?  Any orders?

I believe the answer is no. I did, however, issue the orders before I checked the thread since I realized when I logged on that I had forgot about it. But there is no way for me to prove that (other than my impeccable word as a gentleman ) so if the other players refuse it I will obviously have to accept that.

[Gustaf]

Despite that fleet of his in the Black Sea, I'm willing to take Gustaf's word as a gentleman here.  This game is messed up enough as it is, and I think many of us nearly ended up in his position ourselves.

Thank you. I should add that I had a big family gathering celebrating my birthday on saturday which is why I couldn't rectify my actions earlier.

[Gustaf]

Lewis: I would, but as Smid seems unreachable I'm beginning to give up on getting the builds. Not getting them obviously makes it a bad idea to state them, so...

[Gustaf]

Isn't sunday going to be over in a couple of hours in Australia? How many hours is the difference to Europe again, 9? 10?

It's just that I was hoping to be able to check the map this morning.

Me too. I'm not sure which Australian time zone Smid is in though. But it has to be Sunday evening there now...

[Gustaf]

I'll read the rules closer the next time. *grumbles*

[Gustaf]

Can you move an army from Norway to St. Petersburg?

One of our assignments in a political science class is to defeat other groups at this game.  I typed overly-long messages to people as Germany and I think they attacked me because they were annoyed by my over-strategizing.  I read hundreds of pages of Diplomacy strategy and would write up pages to various countries.

Have to convince England to do this move to stop Russia.  I'm interested in the next round if there's a spot too here.

St Petersburg and Norway share a common border. An army can certainly march there, likewise a fleet can sail from Norway to St Petersburg (north coast).

I'd be happy to GM again in a future game, so long as the everyone's happy with my adjudication. I'm sure there'll be spots open in the next game - I won't start it up until this one's finished, or extremely close to being finished (on the approval of the players remaining in this game) unless there's enough support for a second game to have another one start up.

One game at a time, methinks.

Maybe players in the current game can automatically go to the back of the line for the next game, to let newcomers like Lunar (and I think PiT expressed interest in another thread) a chance to get in.

I shouldn't be surprised that Lunar likes this game.  It's sad to me how few people have heard of Diplomacy.

Hell, maybe if I get into the next game, I won't be Italy!   

Good idea of putting current players at the back of the line, my only concern is that if we only have 8 or 9 people wishing to join in, it becomes difficult to figure out which current players to include in the next game (unless some want to sit out). One game at a time is the best way to do it - otherwise if people are in more than one game, it can be difficult to remember who you're plotting with in what game, etc, plus it will dramatically increase the complexity of my Sunday, and particularly in trying to figure out which moves belong to which game. I might bump the other diplo thread again, or better yet, make a new "Diplomacy Registration" thread.

When Joe did Risk he would let the winner stay on. In a similar fashion you could let those who survived longest stay on if there are empty spots (and put on quarantine those who did not, ahem, live up to their responsibilities). Not that I have any sort of vested interest in the above proposal, of course.

[Gustaf]

The system I would advocate would be to prioritize new-comers (maybe with the exception of the ruling champion, though that is up to you), then players in the last game in order of finishing position, with misbehaves last (I think that if someone let their nation fall into civil disorder in the beginning of the game it would only be fair to help insure the next round's players against it happening again).

[Gustaf]

Except if Gustaf had moved for Kiel instead of Denmark.

There are at least SOME limits to the extent that you can dupe me, you know.

[Gustaf]

It's interesting that Italy is considered so poor. When I played this with my friends we were basically all in agreement that Austria was the worse choice. But I suppose I must bow to the Diplomacy authorities.

[Gustaf]

Italy does have more potential than is commonly recognized.

A couple fun strategies that I personally enjoy:

The Key Lepanto...Italy makes noises that he wants Austria dead, moves into Trieste in S1901, while secretly negotiating with the Austrians.  Meanwhile, in the Fall, he moves into Serbia, while the Austrians take Greece, putting Italy and Austria in a very good position to take out an unsuspecting Turkey.  Of course, this requires some serious trust on the part of the Austrians to let you move into Trieste.  I once had a more elaborate version of this pulled on me as Turkey, where the "phony war" between the Austrians and Italians didn't end until 1903---needless to say I didn't last past 1905.

Another possibility, which is unfortunately never considered, is a long-lasting Italy-Turkey alliance.  Problem is, most players dismiss it out of hand---though not without good reason...Turkey needs to get out of his corner, and it's hard to do that without fleets, and any fleets in the Med are a threat to Italy.  However, if a rock-solid relationship can be established, I've seen Italy and Turkey together sweep the board.  Turkey has more potential to stab Italy than vice versa, which puts Italy at a disadvantage in the long run, but you can't get around that.  Unfortunately, it's usually very hard to try to establish that level of trust (on either side).  If the Turk proposes it, the Italian will assume the Turk will just turn on him by 1903 when Austria is dead and the presumed Russo-Turkish Juggernaut starts rolling.  If the Italian proposes it, the Turk may naturally think the Italian is crazy or has some Lepanto up his sleeve and may refuse to trust him.  As a result, I didn't even bother proposing it in this game (my apologies to Mikado).

Last (and only) time I played I was Turkey and I did ally with Italy. Turkey, Italy and Russia worked together to dispatch Austria fairly quickly. I did betray Italy after that though but it was due to the fact that they played their cards wrong and were being overrun by France and Germany working together anyway.

[Gustaf]

I probably should have given the numbers:

England
Build 1

Russia
Build 2

Italy
Remove 2

If I read it correctly I think Russia builds only 1. They gain Ser, Gre and Con, but lose Swe and Tri.

I had my Sweden fleet disbanded, so I get another 1. Not that it looks likely to help me, of course.

[Gustaf]

I would like to retreat to Livonia.

[Gustaf]

I will post my retreat since it is kind of obvious...to Finland it is.

[Gustaf]

My friends,

I'm thinking of bowing out of this one. I'm having less time these days and the game is pretty much over for my part. In this game there isn't really any luck involved. If the odds are stacked, they're stacked. At this point this is looking like a slow death for Russia with England and France being the only ones with a shot at victory. I feel like I did my best but it clearlyy wasn't enough yet. Now, I don't want to leave you all hanging so I'll play on till a replacer steps out (I'm guessing this turn will be required of me, at least).

[Gustaf]

lol@Franco-Ukraine. Late 2008 in Ankara?

Indeed. Turkish Italy is also amusing.

I think of it as Turscany.

My friends,

I'm thinking of bowing out of this one. I'm having less time these days and the game is pretty much over for my part. In this game there isn't really any luck involved. If the odds are stacked, they're stacked. At this point this is looking like a slow death for Russia with England and France being the only ones with a shot at victory.

wtf? Why? You ever heard of the possibility of a draw?

I don't play for draws Lewis. Anyway, this game is highly unlikely to end in a draw. The likely outcome is for the rest of us to be wiped out by you and Jas and one of you wins. The only way I'm even participating in a draw is through being reduced to almost nothing, lose priority as a target and then grow back again. But playing 2 more months just to get a 3rd or 4th finish in a draw doesn't energize me enough. The game was realistically lost to me when you and Jas allied. From that point on I've tried a couple of gambles to turn the tables, but I made some costly mistakes and it didn't work out.

Anyway, you deserve the win I'm pretty sure is coming to you and I realize that as a good sportsman I should really stay on lose like a gentleman. Ordinarily I would. I feel though that I wouldn't be doing my best and that's why I'm leaving the spot to someone else. Perhaps that person can think more outside the box or something.

[Gustaf]

Haha, the enthusiasm for a draw is heart-warming for this old Russian bear. I think that would be rather unfair on Lewis though, who has somethng like a 70% shot at winning this.

Just to clarify I'm in the process of writing my orders for this turn right now. No rest for the weary.

[Gustaf]

Russia builds the only move possible.  A Moscow.

I disagree. You will rot in Siberia for this treachery.

[Gustaf]

Actually, I believe Russia has three builds, having gained an SC in Munich and having lost 2 units. Only one can be utilized though. France gets a build because one of their units was disbanded, but they did not gained any SCs on a net basis. 

[Gustaf]

Well, this obviously would never have happened with ME leading Russia.

Odd showing Lewis. I really thought you would win this.

But congratulations are in order for Jas.

[Gustaf]

This remains my favorite map from the thread. It's like a work of art.

Ugh. I think that was when I gave up the game, since Erc's failure to hand in orders for that turn doomed me.