Department of Forum Affairs
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 07:06:35 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  Department of Forum Affairs
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18
Author Topic: Department of Forum Affairs  (Read 70984 times)
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,401
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: -4.52

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #275 on: June 23, 2009, 06:15:18 PM »

Shouldn't I win then too because I had more first prefs that Fritz?

That's what I thought as well.

The only ballot I'm still upset about is Gustaf. 

I agree. If BK's vote counts...

But if you got rid of BK's vote, wouldn't you have to also get rid of Andy Jackson's vote, keeping the winner the same?

Marokai was also allowed to vote a second time by the SOFA.  That is three allowed votes, one disallowed, all with the same reasoning for a second vote.

There's a big difference, everyone's explained why.

Not to my satisfaction.

Here's the simplified version Wink

Our votes had eye-witness accounts and mine and BK's in particular had documented evidence of technical failure.

Gustaf only had his word.

Gustaf however is well known and honest, not to mention the fact that he is a mod.  I don't see why he would lie about that.

That's not really a defense, though, he still broke the rules by doing that. Same thing with Ben when I prosecuted him as AG.

But on that basis there should be NO EXCEPTIONS at all.  That includes you, Gustaf, Andy, and Bacon King.

So their vote should be invalidated because they were unlucky than the Voting Booth deleted their vote?
Gustaf was unlucky too though, that his computer messed up.

Again, I highlight the obvious difference. We have proof for everyone else, we only have Gustaf's word. (Also, his votes were right after one another which should've been easy to figure out, and if I recall, different in terms of preferences.)
Gustaf has always been an honest and fair person. He is trusted by many, and is even a moderator. He wouldn't lie. He knows how the voting works, and when he voted twice, he had no clue he did it, or he would have deleted it.
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #276 on: June 23, 2009, 06:20:10 PM »

Even if I were to accept your characterization (which I don't, necessarily) ignorance of the law or a "mistake" is not a defense, as my prosecution of Ben for his supposedly accidental violation of his voting ban proves. It doesn't count.
Logged
Fritz
JLD
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,668
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #277 on: June 23, 2009, 06:20:59 PM »

There is an obvious inconsistency in the SoFA's rulings.  Either both the Presidential and Midwest Senate races are ties, and require run-off elections, or neither of them are ties, and Lief/Bacon and Jedi are the respective winners.  You can't have it both ways.
Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,401
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: -4.52

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #278 on: June 23, 2009, 06:22:42 PM »

Even if I were to accept your characterization (which I don't, necessarily) ignorance of the law or a "mistake" is not a defense, as my prosecution of Ben for his supposedly accidental violation of his voting ban proves. It doesn't count.
It was an accident. Gustaf has always been an honest, fair person. I believe what he said, because he has built up this reputation.
This is a fantasy, we must keep that in mind. People shouldn't be getting so serious of little mistakes.
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #279 on: June 23, 2009, 06:25:10 PM »

Even if I were to accept your characterization (which I don't, necessarily) ignorance of the law or a "mistake" is not a defense, as my prosecution of Ben for his supposedly accidental violation of his voting ban proves. It doesn't count.
It was an accident. Gustaf has always been an honest, fair person. I believe what he said, because he has built up this reputation.
This is a fantasy, we must keep that in mind. People shouldn't be getting so serious of little mistakes.

It. Doesn't. Matter.

He voted twice, voting twice is against the law, case closed. I've prosecuted a case with a similar defense and the court didn't care. "Mistake" or no "mistake" the only proof we have is his word, and it doesn't matter either way. Drop it.
Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,401
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: -4.52

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #280 on: June 23, 2009, 06:27:18 PM »


Gustaf is sort of like a police officer on Atlas. When a police officer says something, you assume they are telling the truth. A judge would value a police officers opinion, because the judge knows the police officer will tell the honest truth. Gustaf knows what Gustaf did.
We'll just have to see what happens...
Logged
Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,978
Canada


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #281 on: June 23, 2009, 10:47:30 PM »

Ok, I wasn't clear on the wording of the act. I declare MasterJedi to be elected as Senator for the Midwest. I apologize for inconvenience.

Logged
Franzl
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,254
Germany


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #282 on: June 24, 2009, 12:53:25 AM »


Gustaf is sort of like a police officer on Atlas. When a police officer says something, you assume they are telling the truth. A judge would value a police officers opinion, because the judge knows the police officer will tell the honest truth. Gustaf knows what Gustaf did.
We'll just have to see what happens...

Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it relevant.
Logged
Purple State
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #283 on: June 24, 2009, 01:00:33 AM »

Even if I were to accept your characterization (which I don't, necessarily) ignorance of the law or a "mistake" is not a defense, as my prosecution of Ben for his supposedly accidental violation of his voting ban proves. It doesn't count.
It was an accident. Gustaf has always been an honest, fair person. I believe what he said, because he has built up this reputation.
This is a fantasy, we must keep that in mind. People shouldn't be getting so serious of little mistakes.

It. Doesn't. Matter.

He voted twice, voting twice is against the law, case closed. I've prosecuted a case with a similar defense and the court didn't care. "Mistake" or no "mistake" the only proof we have is his word, and it doesn't matter either way. Drop it.

That's the point. No exceptions. The law is the law. We have no provisions for the internet doing funky stuff. Unless the SoFA is given that sort of discretion (which I don't believe he is), whether you got screwed by the internet or not shouldn't matter at all. You broke the law, pure and simple, and so your vote should not be valid.
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #284 on: June 24, 2009, 05:15:50 AM »

Even if I were to accept your characterization (which I don't, necessarily) ignorance of the law or a "mistake" is not a defense, as my prosecution of Ben for his supposedly accidental violation of his voting ban proves. It doesn't count.
It was an accident. Gustaf has always been an honest, fair person. I believe what he said, because he has built up this reputation.
This is a fantasy, we must keep that in mind. People shouldn't be getting so serious of little mistakes.

It. Doesn't. Matter.

He voted twice, voting twice is against the law, case closed. I've prosecuted a case with a similar defense and the court didn't care. "Mistake" or no "mistake" the only proof we have is his word, and it doesn't matter either way. Drop it.

That's the point. No exceptions. The law is the law. We have no provisions for the internet doing funky stuff. Unless the SoFA is given that sort of discretion (which I don't believe he is), whether you got screwed by the internet or not shouldn't matter at all. You broke the law, pure and simple, and so your vote should not be valid.

Our three cases were a matter of provable and witnessed voting disenfranchisement because of the voting booth. We have, again, no such proof of that at all with Gustaf, and ignorance of the law isn't a defense.
Logged
Fritz
JLD
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,668
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #285 on: June 24, 2009, 06:20:17 AM »

So, like, when do the lawsuits begin?

I hope this gets settled quicker than the last case that went to court.
Logged
Purple State
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #286 on: June 24, 2009, 08:07:10 PM »

Our three cases were a matter of provable and witnessed voting disenfranchisement because of the voting booth. We have, again, no such proof of that at all with Gustaf, and ignorance of the law isn't a defense.

I agree, ignorance is no defense. My point is that no where in any statute does it account for allowing would-be invalidated votes to count as valid due to technical difficulties or unavoidable disenfranchisement. You could have all the proof in the world, but we are going by the discretion of the SoFA, not anything based in law.

Based on that, I believe that none of those votes should be counted. Making exceptions not backed up by statute slips into a dangerous territory, as evidenced by the controversy over whether to count Gustaf's vote.
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,207
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #287 on: June 29, 2009, 07:54:10 AM »

Ok, I wasn't clear on the wording of the act. I declare MasterJedi to be elected as Senator for the Midwest. I apologize for inconvenience.


Damn those idiots for arguing in here. I only saw this right now.
Logged
Fritz
JLD
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,668
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #288 on: July 13, 2009, 08:47:06 PM »

I await the distinguished SoFA's certification of the election, so that I may be sworn in and begin my work in the Senate.
Logged
Purple State
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #289 on: July 13, 2009, 09:01:48 PM »

I await the distinguished SoFA's certification of the election, so that I may be sworn in and begin my work in the Senate.

So are we. We need you to break a tied vote on an amendment.
Logged
Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,978
Canada


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #290 on: July 13, 2009, 10:30:12 PM »

CERTIFICATION OF SENATE SPECIAL ELECTION

FRITZ      44
DOWNWITHDALEFT   36
CATMUSIC   3
GPORTER (WI)   1

Discarded ballots
J. J. (new voter)

I hereby declare Fritz to be elected
Logged
SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,004
Latvia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #291 on: August 18, 2009, 10:11:09 PM »

Could we get an update on the registered voters list?
Logged
big bad fab
filliatre
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,344
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #292 on: August 19, 2009, 05:33:52 AM »

My motives are to be sure nobody will make excessive formalism in the current Senatorial elections process.

If, based on this mess on absentee ballots, on the fact that some citizens already voting and on the fact that some citizens posting in the voting thread (which, BTW, does not legally exist, since Hamilton wasn't designated to open it...), someone begins to question the whole process and the eventual results, I must say many other things could also be contested.

So, we must refrain from messing it all up.

Let's be a bit formalistic to prove this:

1) First, where are the formal notices ?


F.L. 14-2: Consolidated Electoral System Reform Act
...
Section 9: Administration of Voting Booths
...
4. The administrator of a voting booth shall give registered voters seven days advance public notice, in both the Fantasy Elections Forum and the Voting Booth, of the hours in which voting shall take place for all regular Senate elections


The frontpage of Atlasia Wiki has no official value and, anyways, there are just dates (21st-24th), not hours.

And even if they come now, these notices wouldn't be in time.

2) Furthermore, what about those combined points:

Section 6: Absentee Voting
1. As mandated by Article V, Section 2, Clause 8 of the Federal Constitution, all voters shall have the right to cast absentee votes after the candidacy declaration period has expired.
2. Upon the candidacy declaration deadline occurring the Secretary of Forum Affairs or Deputy Secretary of Forum Affairs shall establish a thread for absentee voting which shall include a full ballot ...


Section 8: Candidacy Declarations
1. The candidacy declaration deadline for regular elections to the Senate shall be seven days before the earliest possible commencement of the election and for special elections to the Senate shall be two days before the commencement of the election.


Are we even sure the vote will open in time, on the 21st ?
As for me, I'm on holidays, with no Internet from the 23rd. So, I want to be sure to be able to vote the 21st or the 22nd.

If I'm not sure and if, at the same time, I can't cast an absentee ballot or my absentee ballot is discounted because there's no management of electoral affairs, well, I would say my citizen's rights were infringed. And that might have some legal consequences.

So please fix all this things quickly.
Logged
Peter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,030


Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -7.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #293 on: August 19, 2009, 06:32:03 AM »

Like so many of the finer details of the Forum Affairs brief, the minutae are not always followed. In fact, I believe the formal 7 days notice has never been followed, despite the fact that I strongly questioned its wisdom at the time.

Section 6 of CESRA no longer applies - see the Absentee Voting Act.

Being SoFA is an extremely difficult job - there are a lot of legal requirements that regulate the job, and in my hayday I was hard pressed to follow them all despite the fact that I wrote most of them.
Logged
big bad fab
filliatre
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,344
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #294 on: August 19, 2009, 06:42:17 AM »
« Edited: August 19, 2009, 06:44:11 AM by big bad fab »

Like so many of the finer details of the Forum Affairs brief, the minutae are not always followed. In fact, I believe the formal 7 days notice has never been followed, despite the fact that I strongly questioned its wisdom at the time.

Section 6 of CESRA no longer applies - see the Absentee Voting Act.

Being SoFA is an extremely difficult job - there are a lot of legal requirements that regulate the job, and in my hayday I was hard pressed to follow them all despite the fact that I wrote most of them.

Thanks for Section 6.
But, well, if the absentee voting booth opens 1 or 2 days before the voting booth itself, where's the point Huh

My global protest is just that I don't want to see many legal disputes AFTER the vote (and because results wouldn't please here or there Smiley ), artificially based on formal reasons (whereas Hamilton did what he thought fine to do, with the SoFA being unclear and absent), as almost the entire process might be questionned.

But let's wait for the official answer.
Logged
Јas
Jas
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,705
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #295 on: August 19, 2009, 07:01:30 AM »

My global protest is just that I don't want to see many legal disputes AFTER the vote (and because results wouldn't please here or there Smiley ), artificially based on formal reasons (whereas Hamilton did what he thought fine to do, with the SoFA being unclear and absent), as almost the entire process might be questionned.

Tisk... disputing the SoFA's decisions is a hallowed and long-practiced Atlasian institution! It's at least as important as the elections themselves. The more obscure the nature of the challenge the better! Grin
Logged
Purple State
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #296 on: August 19, 2009, 10:01:31 AM »

My global protest is just that I don't want to see many legal disputes AFTER the vote (and because results wouldn't please here or there Smiley ), artificially based on formal reasons (whereas Hamilton did what he thought fine to do, with the SoFA being unclear and absent), as almost the entire process might be questionned.

Tisk... disputing the SoFA's decisions is a hallowed and long-practiced Atlasian institution! It's at least as important as the elections themselves. The more obscure the nature of the challenge the better! Grin

And you and Peter are the best at it, Jas.
Logged
Peter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,030


Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -7.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #297 on: August 19, 2009, 10:06:27 AM »

Whilst certainly I do notice errors/oversights by the SoFAs, I do try not to raise them in a way that is too critical of the SoFA, and would only challenge an election in Court if the error really did cause a disadvantage to one candidate. Ultimately I always try to remedy the Law to make it easier for SoFAs to do their job - I think the 7 day notice requirement is one that could do with shortening certainly.
Logged
Purple State
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #298 on: August 19, 2009, 10:09:30 AM »

Whilst certainly I do notice errors/oversights by the SoFAs, I do try not to raise them in a way that is too critical of the SoFA, and would only challenge an election in Court if the error really did cause a disadvantage to one candidate. Ultimately I always try to remedy the Law to make it easier for SoFAs to do their job - I think the 7 day notice requirement is one that could do with shortening certainly.

A lot of our electoral law seems dense and unnecessary; however, it is is clear how difficult it is to change the law, not by statute, but in practice. Given the difficult nature of the job given the SoFA, a major upheaval could cause more confusion than is worth the change.
Logged
Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,978
Canada


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #299 on: August 19, 2009, 04:39:55 PM »

big bad fab, are you requesting an absentee ballot? I've made myself clear that requests be done here in my office.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.059 seconds with 13 queries.