Torie Senate Surgery Office [Pacific Region]

[Torie]

I will wade through all of this tonight. I am on the floor at the moment.  Thanks.

[Torie]

Is this intended to apply to all elections, or just federal elections?  I would think that for non viable parties, the result would be that it members automatically become independents. Any legislation that strips the franchise entirely is doomed to fail. I don't see why the time limits to declare a candidacy need to be changed, except that it would be limited to independents and those who have won their party's nomination.

I don't see how this will accomplish much, but I guess it does force folks to choose between a party and hoping the get the nomination, or becoming an independent. It might cause a spike up in the independents.  I assume the idea is that if you are a member of a party, and lose the nomination, you are ineligible to be put on the ballot. But then one could declare as a write in no?

I assume this needs to be a Constitutional amendment, but I have not looked into that.

After I understand what you want, after thinking all of this through, I will suggest alternative language.

Best, Torie

[Χahar]

Is this intended to apply to all elections, or just federal elections?

All.

I would think that for non viable parties, the result would be that it members automatically become independents. Any legislation that strips the franchise entirely is doomed to fail.

Well, it does make parties, or at least their chairs, important.

I don't see why the time limits to declare a candidacy need to be changed, except that it would be limited to independents and those who have won their party's nomination.

But this'd be a time limit for the primary election.

I don't see how this will accomplish much, but I guess it does force folks to choose between a party and hoping the get the nomination, or becoming an independent.

Another way it increases the role of parties.

It might cause a spike up in the independents.  I assume the idea is that if you are a member of a party, and lose the nomination, you are ineligible to be put on the ballot. But then one could declare as a write in no?

Part of the fun.

I assume this needs to be a Constitutional amendment, but I have not looked into that.

After I understand what you want, after thinking all of this through, I will suggest alternative language.

Best, Torie

Wonderful.

[Torie]

Xahar, do you want to take the laboring oar as to whether this requires a Constitutional amendment or not? I am quite sure that  it does, if it is to bind for  regional elections, but how about if it is just for federal elections?  Someone told me you knew Atlasia law by heart and from memory.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

     Xahar pretty accurately represented my intentions here. Anyway, I'll incorporate the suggested revision, with a 24 hour lapse between the deadline for candidacy & the beginning of the primary. When you figure out if this needs to be an amendment, or have further suggestions, I'll be glad to make any revisions. Here's the 8th draft:

     Amendment for the Empowerment of Parties

     1. Membership of a party whose membership numbers fewer than five registered voters is hereby declared inviable, and thus null and void. Any member of such a party has one week upon finding by the Secretary of Forum Affairs that said party is no longer viable to attempt to increase the party's membership to five citizens once again, or to re-register. If said citizen re-registers within the time frame, his/her right to vote in any election held within the next ten days shall not be infringed.

     2. If two or more members of a given party declare candidacy in the same regularly- scheduled general election, then at a time no less than one week before the commencement of the relevant general election, a primary election for that party shall be held. The polls shall remain open for 72 hours, and be administered by the party chair, who shall be elected from among the membership of said party, by the membership of said party, to terms of no more than six months in duration. Any citizen in good standing with the party may vote in said primary election. There shall be as many primary elections as there are parties with multiple candidates seeking office in the relevant general election.

     3. If the party chair gives advance warning that s/he will be unable to administer said primary election, s/he shall empower any citizen in good standing with the party to administer said primary election. If the party chair or other designated elections administrator fails to properly administer the election, through failure to open or close the booth in a timely fashion, the primary shall be declared null and void, and no candidates of that party for the relevant general election shall appear on the general election ballot, regardless of any attempt by a candidate to add his/her name from the ballot.

     4. A candidate seeking office independent of any major party shall declare his/her candidacy no less than one week before the commencement of the relevant, regularly-scheduled general election. A candidate seeking office as an affiliated member of a major party shall declare his/her candidacy by a deadline set by the party chair, no less than one week, but no more than three weeks which shall be 24 hours before the commencement of the relevant, regularly-scheduled general primary election. This deadline shall be set by the party chair no less than one month before the commencement of the relevant, regularly-scheduled general election.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

     You know, after Torie gives it a once-over, maybe we should get a party chair or two in here to help write it. After all, it delegates a great deal of power & responsibility to the party chair. The only problem is if the party chair decides to be lazy, s/he may resist many of the changes.

[Torie]

Pit (and Xahar), I just wanted you to know that I am in the processing of printing out portions of Atlasian law, including the Constitution, and all  procedural statutes and regulations, which I will read in short order to ascertain how this proposed legislation fits into the mix. Thank you.

[Χahar]

Pit (and Xahar), I just wanted you to know that I am in the processing of printing out portions of Atlasian law, including the Constitution, and all  procedural statutes and regulations, which I will read in short order to ascertain how this proposed legislation fits into the mix. Thank you.

Well, I was going to take a look, but I guess I won't now.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

Pit (and Xahar), I just wanted you to know that I am in the processing of printing out portions of Atlasian law, including the Constitution, and all  procedural statutes and regulations, which I will read in short order to ascertain how this proposed legislation fits into the mix. Thank you.

     Sweet. I eagerly await your findings.

[Torie]

PiT your proposal clearly requires a Constitutional Amendment. I wrote it up, so that if the chair does not act, or there is no chair, the Secretary of Forum Affairs acts in the chairs stead. Othewise, games galore could be played. The time frames are tight, very tight. It would be better to open them up, but the start date should coincide with the registration deadline, so they need to be tight. Maybe the 72 hours could be cut to 48 hours. Lots of definitions are used. They need to be used, to get language that is tight and not filled with holes. Anyway, here is a first draft. It probably needs more work, but I wanted to get something on paper for you to think about. Best, Torie

24th  Amendment to the Atlasian Constitution Regarding the Role of Parties and Its Citizens

     1. No registered person shall have a right to vote in any federal or regional election for office (“General Election”) who is a registered member of any political party (“Non Viable Party”) which has less than five registered as of the commencement of the 9th day EST prior to the date scheduled for such election to commence (“Registration Close Date”). Parties which have at least five registered voters as of such time are hereinafter referred to as “Viable Parties,.” and its registered members as of such time, “Eligible Members.” Voting events for Constitutional Amendments or referenda are not General Elections for purposes of this Amendment, and the right to vote in same shall not be affected hereby.

     2. If two or more members of a Viable Party timely declare candidacy in the same regularly- scheduled Election (“Eligible Party Candidates”), then at a time no less than one week before the earliest possible time for the commencement of such General  Election, a primary election for each such Viable Party with two or more Eligible Party Candidates.  The polls shall remain open for 72 hours, and be administered by the party chair, if such party chair holds office pursuant to the rules of such Viable Party (“Party Chair”), and if no such Party Chair exists shall be conducted by the Secretary of Forum Affairs. Any Eligible Member of the applicable Viable Party shall have a right to vote in such primary election.

     3. If a siting  Party Chair of a Viable Party fails to commence such primary election for such Viable Party within 24 hours of the Registration Close Date, then within 24 hours thereafter, the Secretary of Forum Affairs shall conduct such primary election. 

     4. No person may appear on the ballot for a General Election who is a member of a Viable Party who has not won the primary election of such  Viable Party for the applicable General Election Office pursuant to the procedure described above, or who is a member of a Non Viable Party as of the Registration Close Date for such General Election.

     5. This Amendment shall have no effect on the candidacy or voting rights of any registered person of Atlasia who is not a member of a Non Viable Party as of the Registration

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

     Nice. I do have one question though. If only one person from a party declares candidacy, I assume that that person is considered to have won the primary by default for the purposes of Section IV, right? That seems to be the implication, though it just seems somewhat strange to me.

     Good job, though!

[Torie]

     Nice. I do have one question though. If only one person from a party declares candidacy, I assume that that person is considered to have won the primary by default for the purposes of Section IV, right? That seems to be the implication, though it just seems somewhat strange to me.

     Good job, though!

Good point. The way it is written, that needs to be clarified.

[Torie]

Here is a revision:

24th  Amendment to the Atlasian Constitution Regarding the Role of Parties and Its Citizens

     1. No registered person shall have a right to vote in any federal or regional election for office (“General Election”) who is a registered member of any political party (“Non Viable Party”) which has less than five registered as of the commencement of the 9th day EST prior to the date scheduled for such election to commence (“Registration Close Date”). A party which have at least five legally registered voters as of such time is  hereinafter referred to as a "Viable Party,” and its registered members who are legally registered voters as of such time, “Eligible Members.” Voting events for Constitutional Amendments or referenda are not General Elections for purposes of this Amendment, and the right to vote in the same shall not be affected hereby.

     2. If two or more legally registered voters who are members of a Viable Party timely declare candidacy for the same office in a General Election (“Eligible Viable Party Candidates”), then at a time no less than one week before the earliest possible time for the commencement of voting in such General  Election, a primary election shall be conducted  for each such Viable Party with two or more Eligible Viable  Party Candidates.  The polls for each such primary election shall remain open for 72 hours, and be administered by the party chair of each such Viable Party, if such party chair holds office pursuant to the rules of such Viable Party (“Party Chair”), and in cases where no such Party Chair  exists, such primary election for such Viable Party without a Party Chair shall be conducted by the Secretary of Forum Affairs. Any Eligible Member of the applicable Viable Party shall have a right to vote in such primary election.

     3. If a siting  Party Chair of a Viable Party fails to commence such primary election for such Viable Party within 24 hours of the Registration Close Date, then within 24 hours thereafter, the Secretary of Forum Affairs shall conduct such primary election in the manner described above.

     4. No person may appear on the ballot for office in a General Election who as of the Registration Close Date for such General Election is either (i) a member of a Viable Party who has neither (a) won the primary election of such  Viable Party for the applicable General Election office pursuant to the procedure described above, nor (b) been the  sole Eligible Viable Party Candidate of his or her Viable Party for such office, or (ii) a registered member of a Non Viable Party.

     5. This Amendment shall have no effect on the candidacy or voting rights of any registered person of Atlasia who is not a member of a Non Viable Party as of the Registration Close Date.

If you like it as written, I will introduce it, and get it in the queue. I doubt that I will support it though.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

     Indeed, I like it a lot in its current form. Also, I don't mind if you don't support it. You've already done a fine job with it. It'll be nice though to see how things go with it in the Senate.

[Senator MaxQue]

     2. If two or more legally registered voters who are members of a Viable Party timely declare candidacy for the same office in a General Election (“Eligible Viable Party Candidates”), then at a time no less than one week before the earliest possible time for the commencement of voting in such General  Election, a primary election shall be conducted  for each such Viable Party with two or more Eligible Viable  Party Candidates.  The polls for each such primary election shall remain open for 72 hours, and be administered by the party chair of each such Viable Party, if such party chair holds office pursuant to the rules of such Viable Party (“Party Chair”), and in cases where no such Party Chair  exists, such primary election for such Viable Party without a Party Chair shall be conducted by the Secretary of Forum Affairs. Any Eligible Member of the applicable Viable Party shall have a right to vote in such primary election.

I see a problem. During the August senatorial election, we elect 5 senators. But with this law, they can only endorse one candidate. They should be able to endorse 5 candidates I think.

[Torie]

Good point, at least for the 5 senate seats which are at large. Maybe the PiT has a comment. Welcome to the Pacific by the way.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

     I didn't realize that that was how at-large Senatorial elections worked. In that case, an exception could be written in for this. As far as I know, at-large Senatorial elections are the only ones of those kind, which means we just have to address this problem.

     I would try to rewrite that section for this, but I would have to know one thing: how exactly do the at-large Senatorial elections work?

[Verily]

     I didn't realize that that was how at-large Senatorial elections worked. In that case, an exception could be written in for this. As far as I know, at-large Senatorial elections are the only ones of those kind, which means we just have to address this problem.

     I would try to rewrite that section for this, but I would have to know one thing: how exactly do the at-large Senatorial elections work?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

     Okay, now that I see how it works, here's a re-write to take care of that flaw (with one misspelled word & a few extra spaces fixed):

24th  Amendment to the Atlasian Constitution Regarding the Role of Parties and Its Citizens

     1. No registered person shall have a right to vote in any federal or regional election for office (“General Election”) who is a registered member of any political party (“Non Viable Party”) which has less than five registered as of the commencement of the 9th day EST prior to the date scheduled for such election to commence (“Registration Close Date”). A party which have at least five legally registered voters as of such time is hereinafter referred to as a "Viable Party,” and its registered members who are legally registered voters as of such time, “Eligible Members.” Voting events for Constitutional Amendments or referenda are not General Elections for purposes of this Amendment, and the right to vote in the same shall not be affected hereby.

     2. If more legally registered voters who are members of a Viable Party timely declare candidacy for the same office in a General Election (“Eligible Viable Party Candidates”) than there are seats available in the same, then at a time no less than one week before the earliest possible time for the commencement of voting in such General  Election, a primary election shall be conducted  for each such Viable Party with two or more Eligible Viable Party Candidates. The polls for each such primary election shall remain open for 72 hours, and be administered by the party chair of each such Viable Party, if such party chair holds office pursuant to the rules of such Viable Party (“Party Chair”), and in cases where no such Party Chair exists, such primary election for such Viable Party without a Party Chair shall be conducted by the Secretary of Forum Affairs. Any Eligible Member of the applicable Viable Party shall have a right to vote in such primary election.

     3. If a sitting Party Chair of a Viable Party fails to commence such primary election for such Viable Party within 24 hours of the Registration Close Date, then within 24 hours thereafter, the Secretary of Forum Affairs shall conduct such primary election in the manner described above.

     4. No person may appear on the ballot for office in a General Election who as of the Registration Close Date for such General Election is either (i) a member of a Viable Party who has neither (a) won the primary election of such Viable Party for the applicable General Election office pursuant to the procedure described above, nor (b) been the sole Eligible Viable Party Candidate of his or her Viable Party for such office, or (ii) a registered member of a Non Viable Party.

     5. This Amendment shall have no effect on the candidacy or voting rights of any registered person of Atlasia who is not a member of a Non Viable Party as of the Registration Close Date.

[Torie]

This is quite the brain teaser. Here is yet another iteration. So many holes to fill, so little time.

24th  Amendment to the Atlasian Constitution Regarding the Role of Parties and Its Citizens


     1. No registered person shall have a right to vote in any federal or regional election for office (“General Election”) who is a registered member of any political party (“Non Viable Party”) which has less than five registered as of the commencement of the 9th day EST prior to the date scheduled for such election to commence (“Registration Close Date”). A party which has at least five legally registered voters as of such time is hereinafter referred to as a "Viable Party,” and its registered members who are legally registered voters as of such time, “Eligible Members.” Voting events for Constitutional Amendments or referenda are not General Elections for purposes of this Amendment, and the right to vote in the same shall not be affected hereby.

     2. In a case where the number of  legally registered voters who are members of a Viable Party timely declare candidacy (“Timely Declared Candidates”) for the same office in a General Election  is in excess (“Excess Party Candidates”) of the number of seats (“Available Seats”) for which a registered voter is entitled to vote (which number as of the date of adoption of this amendment, is one such seat for region specific seats, and five such seats for at large seats), then at a time no less than one week before the earliest possible time for the commencement of voting in such General  Election, a primary election shall be conducted  for each such Viable Party with Excess Party Candidates. The polls for each such primary election shall remain open for 72 hours, and be administered by the party chair of each such Viable Party, if such party chair holds office pursuant to the rules of such Viable Party (“Party Chair”), and in cases where no such Party Chair exists, such primary election for such Viable Party without a Party Chair shall be conducted by the Secretary of Forum Affairs. Such primary election shall be conducted in a manner such that such Viable Party nominates a number of candidates for the subject office which does not exceed the number of Available Seats, with each of those so nominated, or who are Timely Declared Candidates of a Viable Party which does not have Excess Viable Party Candidates, referred to herein as a “Eligible Viable Party Candidate.” Any Eligible Member of the applicable Viable Party shall have a right to vote in such primary election. Except as otherwise specified herein, the manner of conducting such primary election shall be within the discretion of the Party Chair (or the Secretary of Forum Affairs if paragraph 3 below is applicable).

     3. If a sitting Party Chair of a Viable Party fails to commence such primary election for such Viable Party within 24 hours of the Registration Close Date, then within 24 hours thereafter, the Secretary of Forum Affairs shall conduct such primary election in the manner described above.

     4. No person may appear on the ballot for office in a General Election unless such person with respect to such General Election  is either (i) an Eligible Viable Party Candidate, or (ii) as of the Registration Close Date for such General Election, not a registered member of either a Viable Party or Non Viable Party.

[Torie]

PiT how do you want me to proceed from here? Thanks.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

     Sure. I like the current form a lot. I think that the implementation of primary elections would be very interesting.

[Torie]

I seeking comments from Pacific region constituents on the following amendment that is on the floor on the Senate. Thank you.

Constitutional Amendment

That the following changes be made to the Atlasian Constitution:

1. Article I, Section 1, Clause 2 shall be amended to read as follows: No person shall be a Senator who has not attained a hundred or more posts.

2. Article I, Section 4, Clause 1 shall be amended to read as follows: The Senate shall be divided into two classes: Class A and Class B, both of which shall be elected by a form of proportional representation.

3. Article I, Section 4, Clause 4 shall be amended to read as follows: If a vacancy shall occur in any Senate seat, then a special election shall be called to fill the remainder of the vacant term within one week of the vacancy occurring.

4. Article I, Section 4, Clause 5 shall be amended to read as follows: However, if a vacancy shall occur less than two weeks before the end of the term in question, then no special election shall be necessary.


Sponsor: Lewis Trondheim

[Senator MaxQue]

Colin has proposed something interesting during the Southeast constitutional Convention.

We should go that way.

[Torie]

What was that?