Fed's to withhold funds to schools if they don't play ball...

[dead0man]

...and force the kids to do volunteer labor (read, slavery) for the state if this guy gets his way.  Is this a good idea?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Verily]

Does not say "for the state" anywhere. And many, many public high schools already have a public service requirement for graduation, usually 40 hours.

[dead0man]

Ahhh, so that makes it ok.  It's not "for" the state, it's "for" everybody, right?  And many schools have it already, thus it's a good idea to force it on everybody else.  That's how you're going to defend this?  How very authoritarian of you.

[Jake]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Or is it that students who do better in school and thus go to college are more likely to want to volunteer to bolster their college application and/or because they tend to be more focused?

And this is a terrible idea. Spending time volunteering is an admirable thing to do, but I prefer cutting a check to support such programs and spending time at work to pay for it rather than engaging in volunteer time. What's the problem there?

[dead0man]

Just in case you don't know, this is Obama's idea.  I'm guessing Verily knew that, hence the poor attempt to defend it.  If it's wrong for the Fed to withhold highway funds to force states to obey (and it is wrong to do that), then it's really really wrong to withhold funds from schools to force states to obey.

[Verily]

Just in case you don't know, this is Obama's idea.  I'm guessing Verily knew that, hence the poor attempt to defend it.  If it's wrong for the Fed to withhold highway funds to force states to obey (and it is wrong to do that), then it's really really wrong to withhold funds from schools to force states to obey.

I'm not making a "poor attempt to defend it", I do genuinely believe that it is a good idea. I don't think it is authoritarian at all, and I don't buy your emotive appeal otherwise. Centralization of requirements is not an authoritarian position, it is a pragmatic one. ("OMG, they're forcing us." is a childish argument, and you know it.)

Volunteer work is not "slavery", and I laugh in your face for trying to call it such.

[dead0man]

You'll note I'm not bashing the "centralization of requirements", I'm bashing the heavy handed methods Obama thinks are acceptable to get his way.  He's not special in this regard, Bush is pretty damned good at it too.  I thought we were tired of that kind of politics.

And you're right, I'm lessening the meaning of the word slavery using it here and that is wrong.  I bash idiots that call GITMO a gulag, I shouldn't fall into the same trap.  But forced volunteering isn't volunteering.  It's not slavery, but it's only a few shades of grey away.

[Sam Spade]

I wouldn't call it slavery.  It's more like child labor, which considering the class of persons that Obama comes from, is quite a predictable response

[tik 🪀✨]

If mandatory community service is to be required, why not give them a positive incentive to do it? Reward a school with extra money or recognition based on how much they actually participate, don't threaten to take funds away if they don't. It's almost the same thing.

[Person Man]

Children need to learn responsibility. If it doesn't happen at home, then where does it happen?

[dead0man]

Children need to learn that they are always subservient to the state.  That doesn't happen in most homes in the US, so the state needs to force it on the schools (who will then force it on the kids, whether they want it or not) by threatening to withhold funds.  I'm not surprised Obama fans are trying to reason this away.  I have a feeling they'd have a different take if this was Bush's idea...or not.  Some people are just authoritarian by nature.

[Person Man]

Children need to learn that they are always subservient to the state.  That doesn't happen in most homes in the US, so the state needs to force it on the schools (who will then force it on the kids, whether they want it or not) by threatening to withhold funds.  I'm not surprised Obama fans are trying to reason this away.  I have a feeling they'd have a different take if this was Bush's idea...or not.  Some people are just authoritarian by nature.

Oh God....a requirement to do work for your community...I can see the constitution roasting in the fireplace already.

[tik 🪀✨]

I'm not surprised Obama fans are trying to reason this away.  I have a feeling they'd have a different take if this was Bush's idea...or not.  Some people are just authoritarian by nature.

Does this include me? I thought my suggestion was reasonable.. I don't approve of Obama's idea being carried out in a threatening way, however, I don't disagree with the idea of requiring community service for graduation. I was required to myself.

[dead0man]

No, that wasn't aimed at you.  And I'm not as much against the idea as I am his methods.

[Person Man]

I'm not surprised Obama fans are trying to reason this away.  I have a feeling they'd have a different take if this was Bush's idea...or not.  Some people are just authoritarian by nature.

Does this include me? I thought my suggestion was reasonable.. I don't approve of Obama's idea being carried out in a threatening way, however, I don't disagree with the idea of requiring community service for graduation. I was required to myself.

That seems reasonable.

No, that wasn't aimed at you.  And I'm not as much against the idea as I am his methods.

That's a reasonable critique.

[CultureKing]

I had to volunteer 24 hours freshman and sophomore years and 75 hours junior and senior years (though the 75 was for IB, not the school which wanted 24 hours). The way I see it community service is part of your education, we need to make sure that our students are able to reach out to new ideas and connect with the community. Having students go out in the world and get involved is something that we should encourage, it is learning about the world around them and the problems that we face in our respective communities.

That being said I am ambivilant about whether it should be a requirement or whether school districts should instead be rewarded for such programs. Either way a school is loosing or gaining money so I don't see a big difference. Also realize that this isn't a huge commitment we are talking about - 1 hour a week for high school and 2 hours a week for college.

[dead0man]

Again, you're missing my main point.  I'm against the forced volunteering for sure, but I don't think that's the end of the world.  My big beef is with Obama's tactics to get what he thinks is best done and the inability of you on the left to see that.  Are you being willfully obtuse or do you actually approve of those kind of tactics?

[NDN]

It's nice to see that the Democrats are also finding ways to bully people into submission, the GOP was getting too good at it.

[NDN]

In fairness according to his campaign website the 100 hours for college students isn't going to be mandated, they'll just be offering incentives in the form of 'credits.' This is still very wrong on multiple levels though.

[Jake]

1 hour a week for high school and 2 hours a week for college.

That time can be transformed into time studying to improve my grades, improve my job chances, and earn me more money to donate or into time working to earn me more money to donate. Why can't I do that rather than "volunteering"? I escape an unpleasant social situation and they get the same benefit.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How can you force, or merely coerce, people into volunteering?

[Ebowed]

Another dumb idea from the Obama campaign - but it's probably an empty promise, and won't be implemented.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

By making their graduation dependent upon it.

[Bono]

It's nice to see that the Democrats are also finding ways to bully people into submission, the GOP was getting too good at it.

Another step in making college degrees worthless.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Another dumb idea from the Obama campaign - but it's probably an empty promise, and won't be implemented.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

By making their graduation dependent upon it.

I meant volunteering with a small "v"; the point of volunteering to do something is that you choose to do it. If you don't, well, whatever it is, it certainly isn't "volunteering"...

[??????????]

Another dumb idea from the Obama campaign - but it's probably an empty promise, and won't be implemented.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

By making their graduation dependent upon it.

I meant volunteering with a small "v"; the point of volunteering to do something is that you choose to do it. If you don't, well, whatever it is, it certainly isn't "volunteering"...

Al, if you haven't realized Obama is an Authoritarian by now....