Update on how sanctuary city works

[CARLHAYDEN]

Slaying suspect once found sanctuary in S.F.
Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writer

Sunday, July 20, 2008

S.F. Shielding Immigrants

Triple-slay suspect appears in court (7/23)

The man charged with killing a father and two sons on a San Francisco street last month was one of the youths who benefited from the city's long-standing practice of shielding illegal immigrant juveniles who committed felonies from possible deportation, The Chronicle has learned.

Edwin Ramos, now 21, is being held on three counts of murder in the June 22 deaths of Tony Bologna, 48, and his sons Michael, 20, and Matthew, 16. They were shot near their home in the Excelsior district when Tony Bologna, driving home from a family picnic, briefly blocked the gunman's car from completing a left turn down a narrow street, police say.

Ramos, a native of El Salvador whom prosecutors say is a member of a violent street gang, was found guilty of two felonies as a juvenile - a gang-related assault on a Muni passenger and the attempted robbery of a pregnant woman - according to authorities familiar with his background.

In neither instance did officials with the city's Juvenile Probation Department alert federal immigration authorities, because it was the city agency's policy not to consider immigration status when deciding how to deal with an offender. Had city officials investigated, they would have found that Ramos lacked legal status to remain in the United States.

[Хahar 🤔]

One case does not a rule make.

[CARLHAYDEN]

One case does not a rule make.

First, its interesting that you have NO concern for the victims of illegal aliens.  Typical liberal.

Second, phonies like you used to say that you would favor deporting aliens who commit crimes other than illegally entering this country.  Well, in San Francisco you can commit a felony, be an illegal alien, and be permitted to stay here (as a matter of policy) so that you can commit more felonies (maybe some murders, as in the case in point).

Third, I understand that you will never abandon your wacky adoration of illegal aiens, no matter how many horrible crimes they committ.  Well, I am not in favor of murder, but perhaps YOu are.

Fourth, is there ANY number of such cases where you will admit there is a problem, or do you just dismiss facts?

[CARLHAYDEN]

There's only one solution. Shoot all of the browns, eh Carl?

How about deporting those persons illegal present in this country, irrespective of color or national origin.

Now, if you repeat you insinuation again, I will report you to Dave Leip.

[War on Want]

Victims of illegal immigrants? huh, last time I checked less of them were criminals porportionally than citizens.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Victims of illegal immigrants? huh, last time I checked less of them were criminals porportionally than citizens.

Please cite the source you checked.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Oh, and here's some statistics which haven't been supressed yet.

U.S. Says Number of Fugitive Aliens Down
ABC News
Government Working to 'Identify, Target and Remove Fugitive Aliens'
By JACK DATE and THERESA COOK
June 20 
 
 A staggering number of fugitive aliens are in the United States, but an increase in federal raids and prosecutions have brought the number down for the first time since 2003, when the federal government began tracking the numbers after the creation of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency.

Fugitive aliens are typically people in the United States illegally who have ignored their final deportation orders. The number of those individuals has grown steadily over the last several years, at an average rate of about 68,000 per year -- or more than 5,600 per month.

The total backlog of fugitive aliens has soared to more than 630,000

[War on Want]

Victims of illegal immigrants? huh, last time I checked less of them were criminals porportionally than citizens.

Please cite the source you checked.

http://www.workingimmigrants.com/2008/02/immigrants_have_lower_incarcer.html

I heard it somewhere quite a long time ago and checked it but there are many examples on the internet. Of course this link is kinda balanced but don't tell me that your anti-immigrant pages aren't biased.

[NDN]

Victims of illegal immigrants? huh, last time I checked less of them were criminals porportionally than citizens.

By definition they're criminals anyway so it's irrelevant if they commit other crimes less frequently.

Carl is a little sensationalist in his delivery but his central point is correct.

[War on Want]

Victims of illegal immigrants? huh, last time I checked less of them were criminals porportionally than citizens.

By definition they're criminals anyway so it's irrelevant if they commit other crimes less frequently.

Carl is a little sensationalist in his delivery but his central point is correct.

By definition it doesn't make it right to consider them criminals anymore than it does to consider drug users or frequent traffic violators criminals. There should be two categories one criminals, one law violators in my opinion.
Anyways what is your problem with illegal immigrants? They come here for a better life for their family, benefited the economy(if they became citizens there wouldn't be the gigantic wage problems we face now), and believe in the American dream

[Cashcow]

This brings to mind the Bill O'Reilly vs. Geraldo Rivera debate a few years back...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FhwwbNA3hjg

[CARLHAYDEN]

Victims of illegal immigrants? huh, last time I checked less of them were criminals porportionally than citizens.

Please cite the source you checked.

http://www.workingimmigrants.com/2008/02/immigrants_have_lower_incarcer.html

I heard it somewhere quite a long time ago and checked it but there are many examples on the internet. Of course this link is kinda balanced but don't tell me that your anti-immigrant pages aren't biased.

Two points, which I will try to make use simple words, as you seem to have problems understanding.

First, I have NO problem with legal immigration, and have had posts where I have recommended a slight increase in the number of legal immigrants admitted to the United States.  So, drop the lies about me opposing immigration.

Second, the study you cited was for immigrants, NOT illegal aliens.  While legal immigrants do tend to have a lower crime rate than illegal aliens, I have yet to see any credible study that says that ILLEGAL aliens have a low crime rate.

[War on Want]

Victims of illegal immigrants? huh, last time I checked less of them were criminals porportionally than citizens.

Please cite the source you checked.

http://www.workingimmigrants.com/2008/02/immigrants_have_lower_incarcer.html

I heard it somewhere quite a long time ago and checked it but there are many examples on the internet. Of course this link is kinda balanced but don't tell me that your anti-immigrant pages aren't biased.

Two points, which I will try to make use simple words, as you seem to have problems understanding.

First, I have NO problem with legal immigration, and have had posts where I have recommended a slight increase in the number of legal immigrants admitted to the United States.  So, drop the lies about me opposing immigration.

Second, the study you cited was for immigrants, NOT illegal aliens.  While legal immigrants do tend to have a lower crime rate than illegal aliens, I have yet to see any credible study that says that ILLEGAL aliens have a low crime rate.

Well first of all if you admit the legal immigration system of the United States is messed up, is biased to Europeans, and middle class, and that illegal immigrants aren't bad people at all but have made mistakes then I will take that back.
Second of all, you could still extrapolate that study and apply it to illegal immigrants and I bet they would only have slightly higher criminiality rates than citizens.

[NDN]

By definition it doesn't make it right to consider them criminals anymore than it does to consider drug users or frequent traffic violators criminals. There should be two categories one criminals, one law violators in my opinion.

By definition based on what? Just what you think? You'll have to give me something better than that.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So we should just let everyone in then?

Look, I understand that people come here for a better life. My mother did after all. But we can't sustain everyone that wants to come here. Having a massive influx of poor migrants is causing huge problems within hospitals, schools and other social services. It's causing environmental damage. It's deflating wages as you pointed out. And it's an obvious security risk.  Besides if we're just going to give everyone amnesty as you suggest why bother with having borders in the first place?

[CARLHAYDEN]

Victims of illegal immigrants? huh, last time I checked less of them were criminals porportionally than citizens.

Please cite the source you checked.

http://www.workingimmigrants.com/2008/02/immigrants_have_lower_incarcer.html

I heard it somewhere quite a long time ago and checked it but there are many examples on the internet. Of course this link is kinda balanced but don't tell me that your anti-immigrant pages aren't biased.

Two points, which I will try to make use simple words, as you seem to have problems understanding.

First, I have NO problem with legal immigration, and have had posts where I have recommended a slight increase in the number of legal immigrants admitted to the United States.  So, drop the lies about me opposing immigration.

Second, the study you cited was for immigrants, NOT illegal aliens.  While legal immigrants do tend to have a lower crime rate than illegal aliens, I have yet to see any credible study that says that ILLEGAL aliens have a low crime rate.

Well first of all if you admit the legal immigration system of the United States is messed up, is biased to Europeans, and middle class, and that illegal immigrants aren't bad people at all but have made mistakes then I will take that back.
Second of all, you could still extrapolate that study and apply it to illegal immigrants and I bet they would only have slightly higher criminiality rates than citizens.

First, there are problems with the legal immigration system, including ineptitude in granting renewals/extenstions and failure to check on those who have not left the country by the extension of their visas (if this had been done, a number of the 911 terrorists would have been caught).

Second, you are totally wrong in you assertion that the "immigration system of the United States...is biased to Europeans.  Here is the data for legal immigrants for 2005:

Mexico                      161,445
India                          84,681
China (PR)                  96,967
Phillipines                   60,748
Cuba                          36,261
Vietnam                      32,781
Dominican Republic     27,504
Korea                          26,562
Columbia                     25,571
Ukraine                        22,761

Total                        1,122,323

So, you allegation about the legal immigration system favoring europeans is totally false!

Next, you fail to grasp basic concepts.  I am concerned with illegal aliens, more particularly, with illegal entrants.  Do you know the definition of "immigrant," or do I need to post it?

Finally, the federal government has deliberately eliminated data collection in a number of categories for crimes which would provide more information.

Check the UCR for twenty-five years ago under "ethnicity," and check it today.  Hmm, category removed.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Recently (as in about three weeks ago), I heard a story that the city was going to stop the practice of shielding juvenile illegals who committed felonies from ICE (http://0-www.sfgate.com.mill1.sjlibrary.org/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/02/BAU911IPGK.DTL). I find it funny that Newsom is claiming ignorance in the matter. Besides, I don't know how sincere Newsom is about this since he still is going to issue ID cards (haven't been able to find a recent article about it though).

     Still, it's just one step on the path to making my home city actually obey federal laws. Then maybe one day, we can deport all felons, regardless of their national origin.

[Sbane]

Victims of illegal immigrants? huh, last time I checked less of them were criminals porportionally than citizens.

Please cite the source you checked.

http://www.workingimmigrants.com/2008/02/immigrants_have_lower_incarcer.html

I heard it somewhere quite a long time ago and checked it but there are many examples on the internet. Of course this link is kinda balanced but don't tell me that your anti-immigrant pages aren't biased.

Two points, which I will try to make use simple words, as you seem to have problems understanding.

First, I have NO problem with legal immigration, and have had posts where I have recommended a slight increase in the number of legal immigrants admitted to the United States.  So, drop the lies about me opposing immigration.

Second, the study you cited was for immigrants, NOT illegal aliens.  While legal immigrants do tend to have a lower crime rate than illegal aliens, I have yet to see any credible study that says that ILLEGAL aliens have a low crime rate.

Well first of all if you admit the legal immigration system of the United States is messed up, is biased to Europeans, and middle class, and that illegal immigrants aren't bad people at all but have made mistakes then I will take that back.
Second of all, you could still extrapolate that study and apply it to illegal immigrants and I bet they would only have slightly higher criminiality rates than citizens.

First, there are problems with the legal immigration system, including ineptitude in granting renewals/extenstions and failure to check on those who have not left the country by the extension of their visas (if this had been done, a number of the 911 terrorists would have been caught).

Second, you are totally wrong in you assertion that the "immigration system of the United States...is biased to Europeans.  Here is the data for legal immigrants for 2005:

Mexico                      161,445
India                          84,681
China (PR)                  96,967
Phillipines                   60,748
Cuba                          36,261
Vietnam                      32,781
Dominican Republic     27,504
Korea                          26,562
Columbia                     25,571
Ukraine                        22,761

Total                        1,122,323

So, you allegation about the legal immigration system favoring europeans is totally false!

Next, you fail to grasp basic concepts.  I am concerned with illegal aliens, more particularly, with illegal entrants.  Do you know the definition of "immigrant," or do I need to post it?

Finally, the federal government has deliberately eliminated data collection in a number of categories for crimes which would provide more information.

Check the UCR for twenty-five years ago under "ethnicity," and check it today.  Hmm, category removed.

Carl you will not deny that our immigration system prefers middle class applicants over working class applicants? The basic thing is that a professional's company will sponsor his h1b and thus  he can easily get a green card. Who the hell is going to sponsor the guy who comes over here to pick lettuce in Salinas?

[Ebowed]

Third, I understand that you will never abandon your wacky adoration of illegal aiens, no matter how many horrible crimes they committ.  Well, I am not in favor of murder, but perhaps YOu are.

Crimes committed by some undocumented workers do not justify deporting all of them.

Now, if you accuse the noble poster you were addressing of supporting murder again, I will report you to Dave Leip.

[Хahar 🤔]

CARL, would you support an expansion of legal immigration to better reflect the realities of the free market? This would seem to be consistent with your positions.

[YRABNNRM]

This brings to mind the Bill O'Reilly vs. Geraldo Rivera debate a few years back...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FhwwbNA3hjg

For once I'm a huge Geraldo fan.

[War on Want]

This brings to mind the Bill O'Reilly vs. Geraldo Rivera debate a few years back...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FhwwbNA3hjg

For once I'm a huge Geraldo fan.

haha that is what I thought when I saw that.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Reminder: Population growth hurts the environment so logically liberals/greens should oppose immigration.

[CARLHAYDEN]

[/quote]

Carl you will not deny that our immigration system prefers middle class applicants over working class applicants? The basic thing is that a professionals company will sponsor his h1b and thus he can easily get a green card. Who the hell is going to sponsor the guy who comes over here to pick lettuce in Salinas?
[/quote]

I would suggest that is a very good approach.  Indeed, I would favor altering the system to give greater preference to those who are literate in English, and possess needed skills (particularly nurses).

With respect to the unskilled laborer, the employers who want them don't want to provide medical care for them (let the taxpayer do it), and do not reimburse the taxpayer for educational and law enforcement costs.

Lets require employers wanting to import unskilled workers to pay for these costs, and then lets see just how many employers really want them.

Its well past time to let rich businesses transfer their costs to the taxpayers!

[CARLHAYDEN]

CARL, would you support an expansion of legal immigration to better reflect the realities of the free market? This would seem to be consistent with your positions.

First, I have repeatedly supported a most expansion in legal immigration.

Second, one of the problems with importing low skilled workers into a welfare state economy, is that there is a 'cost shift' from the employers (who benefit) to the taxpayers who suffer.  If the employers were willing to post surety that they would compensate the taxpayer for medical, educational and law enforcement costs associated with their imported low skilled workers, I believe that you would find there would be very few employers who would want to import them.  Milton Friedman had an interesting observation about this a few years ago.

[Sbane]

Carl you will not deny that our immigration system prefers middle class applicants over working class applicants? The basic thing is that a professionals company will sponsor his h1b and thus he can easily get a green card. Who the hell is going to sponsor the guy who comes over here to pick lettuce in Salinas?
[/quote]

I would suggest that is a very good approach.  Indeed, I would favor altering the system to give greater preference to those who are literate in English, and possess needed skills (particularly nurses).

With respect to the unskilled laborer, the employers who want them don't want to provide medical care for them (let the taxpayer do it), and do not reimburse the taxpayer for educational and law enforcement costs.

Lets require employers wanting to import unskilled workers to pay for these costs, and then lets see just how many employers really want them.

Its well past time to let rich businesses transfer their costs to the taxpayers!
[/quote]

Well businesses are already tax payers so it is reasonable for them to expect the government to pay for educational and law enforcement costs for their employees. I think you make a good point with health insurance but that just shows how broken the whole system is and highlights the need for government subsidized health care or better yet "medicare for anyone who needs it". That money will be payed for with taxes and since we will take the burden of providing medical insurance off employers, I am sure they will not mind paying a little extra tax( yeah right).