is the tobacco industry unfairly demonized?

[Associate Justice PiT]

I love how the government that cares about YOU demonizes BIG TOBACCO but if everyone quit smoking tomorrow the government would in the tank because they take in a criminal amount on tobacco taxes.

We would make it up in by collecting more income, sales, etc. taxes on people in their longer lives, and people would become more productive members of society, thereby increasing the tax base and decreasing what the government needs to spend to fix.

Long term thinking, Harry?  We're gonna make a pubbie out of you yet.   

     I know. What Harry sounded incredibly mercantilistic.

[JohnFKennedy]

I don't think so personally. The only time I have recently seen the tobacco industry massively criticised was in a television programme where a British entrepreneur visited Africa to see how ethically the tobacco companies acted there. The answer was not very. They claimed not to target children, except they organised and sponsored music events which were attended primarily by children. These events also involved competitions which one entered by buying a packet of cigarettes, putting their details on it and submitting it to the company. They also sold, marketed, and encouraged businesses to sell cigarettes individually which all studies suggest are overwhelming bought by children.

All this was despite claiming in their own marketing code that they would not target children. The firm in question was British-American Tobacco. So, while they may not force people to smoke, I would hardly call their advertising ethical.

[Eraserhead]

Yes.  Just like alcohol; they don't force people to smoke.

I'm assuming you have no problem with any drug dealers then? They don't force people to take drugs, do they?

I know I certainly don't! Some of my best friends have been street pharmascists.

[John Dibble]

I always come down hard on my smoking friends for being such f***ing stupid immoral dumbasses for smoking, but I think they're smart and affluent and should know better.

Now, I can see where you might get "f***ing stupid dumbasses", but immoral? Come on now, are they putting them out by rubbing them into the skin of orphans or something?

[Ban my account ffs!]

I love how the government that cares about YOU demonizes BIG TOBACCO but if everyone quit smoking tomorrow the government would in the tank because they take in a criminal amount on tobacco taxes.

We would make it up in by collecting more income, sales, etc. taxes on people in their longer lives, and people would become more productive members of society, thereby increasing the tax base and decreasing what the government needs to spend to fix.

Long term thinking, Harry?  We're gonna make a pubbie out of you yet.   

     I know. What Harry sounded incredibly mercantilistic.

Yeah, we all know that Republicans are good at fighting problems at the root and planning for the future.  That's why we have high quality, well funded schools, programs to keep kids off the streets (and out of trouble), health care for the needy, major investments in public transit, and a balanced budget.

Oh yeah, and it's also why we're investing in alternatives and working to get off of oil while we still have a choice and working to preserve the environment for our children.



Oh, and why demonize the poor, innocent tobacco industry when we could just demonize gays, blacks, browns, and other undesirables in society?  

I mean, if you wanna play that game.

[7,052,770]

I always come down hard on my smoking friends for being such f***ing stupid immoral dumbasses for smoking, but I think they're smart and affluent and should know better.

Now, I can see where you might get "f***ing stupid dumbasses", but immoral? Come on now, are they putting them out by rubbing them into the skin of orphans or something?

intentionally harming the body that God created especially for you is a sin in virtually every branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I always come down hard on my smoking friends for being such f***ing stupid immoral dumbasses for smoking, but I think they're smart and affluent and should know better.

Now, I can see where you might get "f***ing stupid dumbasses", but immoral? Come on now, are they putting them out by rubbing them into the skin of orphans or something?

intentionally harming the body that God created especially for you is a sin in virtually every branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

     What if they reject the Abrahamic faiths? How is it immoral then?

[Iosif is a COTHO]

I'm assuming you have no problem with any drug dealers then? They don't force people to take drugs, do they?

How often do you see stories about people burglarizing houses or robbing people to feed their nicotine habit? Or launching gang wars over the cigarette trade? And which foreign terrorist groups receive money from sales of tobacco?

Cigarettes are pretty cheap, and they aren't  on the same addictiveness level as drugs like heroin or crack, which are 'drugs I will do stupid things to get right now' level. Cigarettes are more on the 'drugs I find it difficult to live without' level.

As for the last two points, it's because they are legal and widely available.


My main point is that I find it difficult not to demonise corporations that make their money by selling a product which its conusmers are addicted to. Is it not pretty clear to see the immorality in that? This is not even to mention that hundreds of thousands who die every year from smoking cigarettes.

[© tweed]

I'm assuming you have no problem with any drug dealers then? They don't force people to take drugs, do they?

How often do you see stories about people burglarizing houses or robbing people to feed their nicotine habit? Or launching gang wars over the cigarette trade? And which foreign terrorist groups receive money from sales of tobacco?

Cigarettes are pretty cheap, and they aren't  on the same addictiveness level as drugs like heroin or crack, which are 'drugs I will do stupid things to get right now' level. Cigarettes are more on the 'drugs I find it difficult to live without' level.

nicotine has tested to be more addictive than heroin and cocaine in some studies.  it's just that the withdrawal isn't fatal (and also, that you can go to your local gas station and purchase a pack for a few dollars; it can be a bit more difficult and a bit more expensive to get heroin and/or cocaine).

[© tweed]

good little graphic here

[King]

good little graphic here

What exactly is the point here?  Of the legal things on that chart, Tobacco is slightly more dependent than Alcohol, but alcohol causes slightly more physical harm.  If the point is in favor of the legalization of all the yellow dots, there's probably a better thread than this for it.

[© tweed]

I wasn't trying to make a point, I just think the chart is interesting/useful

[Bono]

good little graphic here

That chart grossly overstates LSD's physical harm, which is essentially zero. The only way LSD could harm you is if someone dropped a ton of the stuff on you.

[John Dibble]

I always come down hard on my smoking friends for being such f***ing stupid immoral dumbasses for smoking, but I think they're smart and affluent and should know better.

Now, I can see where you might get "f***ing stupid dumbasses", but immoral? Come on now, are they putting them out by rubbing them into the skin of orphans or something?

intentionally harming the body that God created especially for you is a sin in virtually every branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

By that logic they can't drink alcohol or eat unhealthy foods. As far as I know the logic in those faiths pertains to more immediate self-harm like suicide or self-mutilation. Besides, even if your logic is correct I don't think most smokers view smoking as intentionally harming themselves, even if it is unhealthy.

[7,052,770]

I always come down hard on my smoking friends for being such f***ing stupid immoral dumbasses for smoking, but I think they're smart and affluent and should know better.

Now, I can see where you might get "f***ing stupid dumbasses", but immoral? Come on now, are they putting them out by rubbing them into the skin of orphans or something?

intentionally harming the body that God created especially for you is a sin in virtually every branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

By that logic they can't drink alcohol or eat unhealthy foods. As far as I know the logic in those faiths pertains to more immediate self-harm like suicide or self-mutilation. Besides, even if your logic is correct I don't think most smokers view smoking as intentionally harming themselves, even if it is unhealthy.

Well abusing alcohol or unhealthy foods is sinful as well, but that's somewhat besides the point.  I challenge you to find me a single major/semimajor religious group outside of Native American pagan faiths that doesn't consider tobacco smoking a sin.

[© tweed]

good little graphic here

That chart grossly overstates LSD's physical harm, which is essentially zero. The only way LSD could harm you is if someone dropped a ton of the stuff on you.

LSD can be indirectly harmful as you have the ability to do some dumb sh**t while tripping.  I'm not sure if that was factored in or not.

[John Dibble]

Well abusing alcohol or unhealthy foods is sinful as well, but that's somewhat besides the point.  I challenge you to find me a single major/semimajor religious group outside of Native American pagan faiths that doesn't consider tobacco smoking a sin.

Well, seeing as how you don't speak for the Christian community at large... CHRISTIANITY. Yeah, some Christians believe it is, but others don't. Even those that do don't generally go around telling people about it - they've got larger concerns, like throwing rocks at gay people, claiming atheists worship Satan, and burning Harry Potter stuff.

Judaism doesn't expressly prohibit it either, though there is some debate about it in Jewish law. Some interpretations of Jewish law allow it, others don't.

Oh, and how about Buddhism:

[Хahar 🤔]

I always come down hard on my smoking friends for being such f***ing stupid immoral dumbasses for smoking, but I think they're smart and affluent and should know better.

Now, I can see where you might get "f***ing stupid dumbasses", but immoral? Come on now, are they putting them out by rubbing them into the skin of orphans or something?

intentionally harming the body that God created especially for you is a sin in virtually every branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

By that logic they can't drink alcohol or eat unhealthy foods. As far as I know the logic in those faiths pertains to more immediate self-harm like suicide or self-mutilation. Besides, even if your logic is correct I don't think most smokers view smoking as intentionally harming themselves, even if it is unhealthy.

Well, we are proscribed from drinking alcohol for that very reason.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I always come down hard on my smoking friends for being such f***ing stupid immoral dumbasses for smoking, but I think they're smart and affluent and should know better.

Now, I can see where you might get "f***ing stupid dumbasses", but immoral? Come on now, are they putting them out by rubbing them into the skin of orphans or something?

intentionally harming the body that God created especially for you is a sin in virtually every branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

By that logic they can't drink alcohol or eat unhealthy foods. As far as I know the logic in those faiths pertains to more immediate self-harm like suicide or self-mutilation. Besides, even if your logic is correct I don't think most smokers view smoking as intentionally harming themselves, even if it is unhealthy.

Well, we are proscribed from drinking alcohol for that very reason.

That's one of my biggest issues with your religion, in addition to the disgusting practice of having women wear headscarves.

[John Dibble]

Well, we are proscribed from drinking alcohol for that very reason.

Well, Islam might forbid it, but drinking isn't forbidden in the other two Abrahamic religions. I believe those forbid drinking in excess (getting drunk) but drinking is permitted otherwise.

[JSojourner]

I always come down hard on my smoking friends for being such f***ing stupid immoral dumbasses for smoking, but I think they're smart and affluent and should know better.

Now, I can see where you might get "f***ing stupid dumbasses", but immoral? Come on now, are they putting them out by rubbing them into the skin of orphans or something?

And bottom line...almost all people have some addiction.  Is tobacco a bad one?  Absolutely.  But as a fat guy, it's hardly my place to point fingers.

[Хahar 🤔]

I always come down hard on my smoking friends for being such f***ing stupid immoral dumbasses for smoking, but I think they're smart and affluent and should know better.

Now, I can see where you might get "f***ing stupid dumbasses", but immoral? Come on now, are they putting them out by rubbing them into the skin of orphans or something?

intentionally harming the body that God created especially for you is a sin in virtually every branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

By that logic they can't drink alcohol or eat unhealthy foods. As far as I know the logic in those faiths pertains to more immediate self-harm like suicide or self-mutilation. Besides, even if your logic is correct I don't think most smokers view smoking as intentionally harming themselves, even if it is unhealthy.

Well, we are proscribed from drinking alcohol for that very reason.

That's one of my biggest issues with your religion, in addition to the disgusting practice of having women wear headscarves.

My mom doesn't wear one. Nor do her friends. But yes, I imagine that giving up alcohol may be hard for some people.

[Gustaf]

is the tobacco industry unfairly demonized?

Not really. It's a disgusting and immoral industry. If you by "unfair" mean that one could target others too, then I guess there is some truth in that.