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Author Topic: Most socially conservative country in Europe?  (Read 19772 times)
Huckleberry Finn
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« on: September 04, 2004, 03:40:34 pm »
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I say Poland, but there is several other fairly socially conservative countries in Europe. Even more conservative than USA.

For example the abortion is illegal at least in Poland, Malta, Portugal and Ireland (excluding cases of rape, incest and saving of mother life) The divorce was illegal few years ago in some countries. (I think that Bono can tell us something about that)

I put Austria on the list, because of success of Haider's FP party (27 percent of vote)
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I live in Finland. I vote Conservatives (National Coalition Party) in Finnish elections, but consider myself as moderate Democrat in the USA.

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NYGOP
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2004, 03:43:51 pm »
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Poland has been getting more conservative. Ireland used to be socially conservative but is getting more liberal by the minute. Greece is VERY religious but that doesn't really equate to conservatism like it would in other places. Austria is conservative in a Swiss manner. So my vote goes to Poland.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2004, 03:45:51 pm by NYGOP »Logged
Brambila
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2004, 03:47:14 pm »
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Malta and Poland. In additon to Malta, Poland, Ireland, and portugal having abortion illegal, so have Andorra, Spain, Monaco, San Marino, Leichenstein, and the Vatican made similar laws.
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2004, 03:51:37 pm »
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Does Bavaria count? Cheesy

Well, I dont know... perhaps, Ireland?

A little sitenote: Im not sure, if the FPִs success counts as a sign that Austria is generally a conservative country... its probably a sign that they are xenophobic and a bit too much anti-Semitic?Huh Other thoughts?
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frenger
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2004, 04:02:25 pm »
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Malta and Poland. In additon to Malta, Poland, Ireland, and portugal having abortion illegal, so have Andorra, Spain, Monaco, San Marino, Leichenstein, and the Vatican made similar laws.

Why would vatican need abortion laws for.
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frenger
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2004, 04:06:02 pm »
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I say Poland, but there is several other fairly socially conservative countries in Europe. Even more conservative than USA.

For example the abortion is illegal at least in Poland, Malta, Portugal and Ireland (excluding cases of rape, incest and saving of mother life) The divorce was illegal few years ago in some countries. (I think that Bono can tell us something about that)


I voted Malta. Divorce is illegal in Malta today, but as for the Portugues situation: in the dictatorship years, it was illegal for Catholics married by the catholic Church to get divorced, but it was ok to everyone else. Then after the revolution, the government broke the concordate with the Vatican unilaterally, and everyone was able to get divorced.
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Michael Z
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2004, 04:10:15 pm »
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Most of the countries listed (specifically Poland, Portugal and Ireland) are very religious, but that doesn't immediately have to say they're socially conservative. For inbstance, as NYGOP mentioned, Ireland is becoming increasingly liberal.

But since I can only really go by personal experience, I have to say that Austria is so far the most socially conservative European country I've been to. (Then again the Alps region in general is very conservative, not just Austria, but also Bavaria, Switzerland, Liechtenstein and northern Italy ie. South Tyrol).

A little sitenote: Im not sure, if the FPִs success counts as a sign that Austria is generally a conservative country... its probably a sign that they are xenophobic and a bit too much anti-Semitic?Huh Other thoughts?

I'm not sure if Austria is endemically xenophobic, but there certainly tends to be rather strong anti-Semitic and xenophobic fervour within Austrian society (at least if some surveys are to be believed). And then of course there was Kurt Waldheim...

However, the success of the far right is not unique to Austria and unfortunately we've seen the same problem in many other European countries (Vlaams Blok in Belgium, France's Front Nationale, Northern League in Italy, UKIP in Britain, etc) where extreme nationalistic/xenophobic parties are attracting roughly 10-20% of the vote. Whether this suggests a growing tide in xenophobia is up for debate (I doubt all the people who vote for these parties are xenophobic, most of them look for a protest vote and are simply too stupid to understand the truly evil nature of these parties), but I can't say it doesn't worry me.
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frenger
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2004, 04:12:25 pm »
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Most of the countries listed (specifically Poland, Portugal and Ireland) are very religious,


I disagree. At least for the Portugal part. Yes, everyones technically Catholic(not me, i'm Protestant), but they're all Burger King Catholics. I see very few traces of religiousity in the people I know.
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NYGOP
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2004, 04:26:35 pm »
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(not me, i'm Protestant)

What branch? I'm interested to know what denominations operate in such a Catholic country?
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Brambila
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2004, 04:34:56 pm »
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Portugal is only traditionally a Catholic country, most of the population doesn't practice. The dictatorship in Portugal during the early 1900s was atheist- I don't know if that's the same one that Bono is talking about. Religious were arrested, which is why the three children from Fatima got into such trouble with the government.

Malta is by far most conservative. Poland is also very conservative too, not allowing gay marriage, against abortion, etc.
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2004, 07:34:24 pm »
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The Vatican
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frenger
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2004, 04:20:37 am »
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Portugal is only traditionally a Catholic country, most of the population doesn't practice. The dictatorship in Portugal during the early 1900s was atheist- I don't know if that's the same one that Bono is talking about. Religious were arrested, which is why the three children from Fatima got into such trouble with the government.

Malta is by far most conservative. Poland is also very conservative too, not allowing gay marriage, against abortion, etc.

What dictatorship in the early 1900's? There was no dictatorship in the early 1900's. well, except that one year thing in 1917, but then they shot the guy and it wore of. I'm talking about the New State, from 1933 to 1974. That's the dictatorship I'm talking about. I think what you're talking about is the 1st Republic, that was atheist, or at least seculrarist, but it was not a dictatorship. It lasted from 1910 till 1926.
The "three children from Fatima" got into such trouble simply because it was the WWI at the time, and the govt didn't want any trouble. besides, the Catholic Church wasn't too happy about them either.
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Platypus
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2004, 04:34:44 am »
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Italy. Going from what I know of Italy itself, and Italian immigrants, it is extremely conservative socially. The maltese immigrants must've all been communists or something because they are nowhere near as conservative.

(BTW, there are more Maltese people or people of Maltese descent living in Australia then Malta Cheesy)
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frenger
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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2004, 04:38:15 am »
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I don't know why so many people voted for Portugal.
Acually, prostitution is not a crime, altough it's an over-the-counter activity. Only pimping and owning brothels and such is a crime.
And marijuana is decriminalized.
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Brambila
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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2004, 11:31:47 am »
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Portugal is only traditionally a Catholic country, most of the population doesn't practice. The dictatorship in Portugal during the early 1900s was atheist- I don't know if that's the same one that Bono is talking about. Religious were arrested, which is why the three children from Fatima got into such trouble with the government.

Malta is by far most conservative. Poland is also very conservative too, not allowing gay marriage, against abortion, etc.

What dictatorship in the early 1900's? There was no dictatorship in the early 1900's. well, except that one year thing in 1917, but then they shot the guy and it wore of. I'm talking about the New State, from 1933 to 1974. That's the dictatorship I'm talking about. I think what you're talking about is the 1st Republic, that was atheist, or at least seculrarist, but it was not a dictatorship. It lasted from 1910 till 1926.
The "three children from Fatima" got into such trouble simply because it was the WWI at the time, and the govt didn't want any trouble. besides, the Catholic Church wasn't too happy about them either.

No, it was completely because of the atheistic government- the apparitions happened in 1917.
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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2004, 02:06:20 pm »
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Greece and Poland.
Both very conservative indeed.
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Brambila
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2004, 03:44:30 pm »
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Is Greece really conservative? I mean, abortion is legal there.
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« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2004, 04:41:17 am »
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Is Greece really conservative? I mean, abortion is legal there.

I think abortion is illegal. They also have military service.
The Greek Orthodox church came about because they thought catholicism was too liberal! Smiley Very nice people though and beautiful country.
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I live in the UK and regard myself as a socially liberal, economic centrist. I vote for the British Labour party and support the Canadian NDP and US Democratic parties.


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Platypus
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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2004, 06:24:29 am »
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Abortion isnt that important in determining social conservatism. Most would say the US is very socially conservative, but aborion is allowed there.
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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2004, 06:41:39 am »
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Abortion isnt that important in determining social conservatism. Most would say the US is very socially conservative, but aborion is allowed there.

No, but Greece is very conservative. Emphasis on traditional families and marriage is still very strong. Widows there still wear black until the day they die.
That said, there isn't the level of outward aggression to minority groups that exists in more liberal nations.
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I live in the UK and regard myself as a socially liberal, economic centrist. I vote for the British Labour party and support the Canadian NDP and US Democratic parties.


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Platypus
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2004, 06:45:45 am »
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well, there wasn't that much immigration until very recently. IIRC, the % of immigrants in Greece has risen from about 0.5% in 1980 to over 1/10th.

And yes, many widows do wear black (Melbourne has the worlds second laregest greek community excluding athens) but some don't; it's mainly just the really really really old ones that do.

And finally, the greeks are the secind most racist group towards new immigrants from china/vietnam/malaysia etc., just after the Italians.
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Brambila
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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2004, 08:27:12 pm »
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I just looked up the law on the UN website.

Grounds on which abortion is permitted:

   To save the life of the woman   Yes
   To preserve physical health   Yes
   To preserve mental health   Yes
   Rape or incest   Yes
   Foetal impairment   Yes
   Economic or social reasons   Yes
   Available on request   Yes


Here

But either way, the US also has abortion legal, though I wouldn't consider it a socially conservative state, but rather a nation with a lot of social conservatives. A socially conservative state are nations like El Salvador and Honduras.
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