"Dark Horse" VP picks

[MODU]

We have tons of threads on VPs on here, but none specifically on dark horse picks.   This person came to mind over the weekend, and it could be an interesting angle for McCain to go when picking a candidate.

Jon D. Fox - Former two-term Congressman from Pennsylvania, currently Republican chairman in Abington Township, and holds a J.D from Delaware School of Law.  What popped into my mind was that he is one of the few openly "pro-labor" Republicans. 

Now while it might not be him specifically, would a pro-labor Republican be enough to pull in some conservative democrats or indpendents that are sitting on the fence?

What are you "dark horse" picks?

[YRABNNRM]

A month or two ago, Lunar brought up former Governor of Mississippi and former Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Ray Mabus as a running mate for Obama. I have thought he's a good dark horse ever since then.

The "dark horse" choice for McCain for me is Senator John Ensign. Phil had a thread on him a week or two ago.

[Lunar]

Thread I posted a while back about them for McCain  (ignore the Daniels part, that was dumb)

Thread I posted about Obama's picks that includes a section on dark horses

Just to provide fodder for the discussion.

I'm glad Ray Mabus has two supporters on the forum.  Three if you count Harry, who likes him too.

[JSojourner]

The L.A. Times floated an idea earlier this summer about Chet Edwards with Obama.  I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.

I really don't get Ensign, since he's done such a terrible job recruiting candidates in states where victory might have been easy.

I won't say Mike Pence, Tony Zinni or Sam Nunn are dark horses because they've been talked about by more than just a random pundit, blog or newspaper.

If Christine Todd Whitman were anti-choice, she'd be a good pick for McCain.  He needs to make it more clear that he's no George W. Bush.  And tapping someone who was clearly unhappy in the Bush Administration...who also has significant experience in governing...would be a master stroke.  But the abortion issue is still huge to the GOP base and Mac can't risk making the far right any less happy.

Kit Bond?  If McCain thinks he needs to shore up the midwest...

Richard Burr?  A.H. Duke brought him up awhile ago when I was thinking Sanford.  The more I thought about it, the more it made sense.  He's not a far rightist but he's still reasonably conservative.

And my darkest of dark horses for Obama?  Indiana Senator Richard Lugar.  Please don't flame me.  I know it's not going to happen.  But as a journalist and a history nut, I love big political earthquakes.  And it's been awhile since we've had one.  I guess this is just me WISHING this would happen. 

[Torie]

We have tons of threads on VPs on here, but none specifically on dark horse picks.   This person came to mind over the weekend, and it could be an interesting angle for McCain to go when picking a candidate.

Jon D. Fox - Former two-term Congressman from Pennsylvania, currently Republican chairman in Abington Township, and holds a J.D from Delaware School of Law.  What popped into my mind was that he is one of the few openly "pro-labor" Republicans. 

Now while it might not be him specifically, would a pro-labor Republican be enough to pull in some conservative democrats or indpendents that are sitting on the fence?

What are you "dark horse" picks?

Jon Fox was viewed as clown. LOL.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

And my darkest of dark horses for Obama?  Indiana Senator Richard Lugar.  Please don't flame me.  I know it's not going to happen.  But as a journalist and a history nut, I love big political earthquakes.  And it's been awhile since we've had one.  I guess this is just me WISHING this would happen. 

JS, I have thought of this too considering the Big O's love-fest with Lugar, and I wouldn't put it past him truly considering him........but his party leadership would have no parts of it.  So no flaming, my friend, you just said what more than 1 person has thought.

[Know Your Rights!]

This is the second time I have typed this out...I accidentally hit who knows what on the keyboard, and lost my first analysis. Since I was working on the GOP at the time, I'll start with the dark horse for the McCain ticket.

Rep. Cathy McMorris-Rodgers (R-WA)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_McMorris_Rodgers

Admitedly, I struggled to come up with a "dark horse" for VP for McCain. I think that whomever McCain picks should be youthful and photogenic. McCain is the one with the record. McMorris-Rodgers rose quickly through the GOP ranks as a State Rep., and became the youngest (and first female) house Republican leader in state history. As a congresswoman, she has focused on veterans' and environmental issues. She has also become an advocate for women's issues. She helps in several areas, providing a balance to McCain's age, but also has her own merits as the VP choice. Not a household name, but what dark horse is? I'm not aware of any major issues/scandals that would render her disqualified, perhaps one of our Washington posters could help out!

For the Democrats...

Governor Gaston Caperton (D-WV)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_Caperton

Caperton, Governor of West Virginia from 1989-1997, lends considerable experience to the ticket. He defeated an incumbent Republican Governor in his first run for office (granted, the incumbent was Arch Moore, who had long been allegedly corrupt). As Governor he greatly improved the state's educational situation and raised teacher pay. He also improved the fragile economic conditions in West Virginia, lowering unemployment by nearly four percent and in the process creating 86,000 new jobs. He also aided West Virginian tourism, through the creation of Tamarack, a museum and art gallery. Since 1999, he has been President of the College Board and has been received great acclaim for his efforts. An education crusader with a strong record of economic improvement in a domestic policy oriented election deserves a look. There are two things which may cause issues, and I will try to refute these. First of all, Caperton is 68. Mr. Morden and I have discussed the importance of age in the Veepstakes, and I do concede that the age may be a factor. However, Joe Biden is 66 and probably being seriously considered. Caperton should also be given some consideration. Also, he is twice-divorced. This might not play well with value voters. I just wonder how much of an issue Obama's opponents would make of it. All in all, Caperton is a solid pick with a good record. I doubt such a pick would put WV in play, but it would go a long way toward assuaging the concerns of voters who think the ticket is inexperienced.

(Note: I think Mabus would be a good dark-horse pick as well)

[MatthewZD]

My dark horse pick for McCain that I made a few weeks ago is now making headlines -- Rep. Eric Cantor of VA.  I'm almost afraid to make one for Obama.

Oh, what the heck.  Let me think on this one a bit.

[Lunar]

Cantor isn't a dark horse anymore (he was when I made him my prediction ).  He's one of the most-cited VP's nowadays.  The Democratic VP page cites him among eight VP's, he has high stocks on Intrade and Facebook, and there was a media storm about him a couple days ago.

[Spaghetti Cat]

This is the second time I have typed this out...I accidentally hit who knows what on the keyboard, and lost my first analysis. Since I was working on the GOP at the time, I'll start with the dark horse for the McCain ticket.

Rep. Cathy McMorris-Rodgers (R-WA)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_McMorris_Rodgers

Admitedly, I struggled to come up with a "dark horse" for VP for McCain. I think that whomever McCain picks should be youthful and photogenic. McCain is the one with the record. McMorris-Rodgers rose quickly through the GOP ranks as a State Rep., and became the youngest (and first female) house Republican leader in state history. As a congresswoman, she has focused on veterans' and environmental issues. She has also become an advocate for women's issues. She helps in several areas, providing a balance to McCain's age, but also has her own merits as the VP choice. Not a household name, but what dark horse is? I'm not aware of any major issues/scandals that would render her disqualified, perhaps one of our Washington posters could help out!

For the Democrats...

Governor Gaston Caperton (D-WV)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_Caperton

Caperton, Governor of West Virginia from 1989-1997, lends considerable experience to the ticket. He defeated an incumbent Republican Governor in his first run for office (granted, the incumbent was Arch Moore, who had long been allegedly corrupt). As Governor he greatly improved the state's educational situation and raised teacher pay. He also improved the fragile economic conditions in West Virginia, lowering unemployment by nearly four percent and in the process creating 86,000 new jobs. He also aided West Virginian tourism, through the creation of Tamarack, a museum and art gallery. Since 1999, he has been President of the College Board and has been received great acclaim for his efforts. An education crusader with a strong record of economic improvement in a domestic policy oriented election deserves a look. There are two things which may cause issues, and I will try to refute these. First of all, Caperton is 68. Mr. Morden and I have discussed the importance of age in the Veepstakes, and I do concede that the age may be a factor. However, Joe Biden is 66 and probably being seriously considered. Caperton should also be given some consideration. Also, he is twice-divorced. This might not play well with value voters. I just wonder how much of an issue Obama's opponents would make of it. All in all, Caperton is a solid pick with a good record. I doubt such a pick would put WV in play, but it would go a long way toward assuaging the concerns of voters who think the ticket is inexperienced.

(Note: I think Mabus would be a good dark-horse pick as well)

McMorris Rodgers actually would be a good pick for McCain as a darkhorse VP.  She is pregnant in that picture, and had the baby a little over a year, who was unfortunatley born with Downs Syndrome.  She is truly pro-life and is married to a military man.  As earlier stated she was the youngest and first female Republican leader in the Washington state house.  She is conservative (member of the RSC) but not too conservative to scare off independents
Here's a more recent unpregnant pic

[Keystone Phil]

Jon D. Fox - Former two-term Congressman from Pennsylvania, currently Republican chairman in Abington Township, and holds a J.D from Delaware School of Law.  What popped into my mind was that he is one of the few openly "pro-labor" Republicans. 

You. Are. Off. Your. Rocker.

Wow. Did someone really just suggest Jon Fox? Really?

By the way, he only served two terms because he was defeated. That doesn't help this joke suggestion.

[Mr. Morden]

For Obama, Bob Graham (though highly doubtful because of his age) and Blanche Lincoln.

For McCain, John Sununu, Don Nickles, and Marsha Blackburn.  Cox, Kasich, and Huntsman are also occasionally mentioned here, but very rarely mentioned in the media at large.

[YRABNNRM]

I think Sununu would be a good pick for McCain's running mate, unfortunately he's got that whole being defeated for re-election thing coming up. He was my top pick for awhile.

[Lunar]

Here's my Ray Mabus post:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=75980.0

Let’s visit some autobiographical details from our favorite source, Wikipedia:

·   Fourth generation Mississippian, son of a hardware store owner and went to public schools
·   Served in the U.S. Navy
·   First found work post-college working as a law clerk for the Court of Appeals and for the US Agriculture Committee
·   In 1983 he was elected state auditor (served until 1988) “during which time he recovered millions in misspent or stolen public funds and participated in a large FBI sting operation. By the time it was finished, "Operation Pretense" ensnared 57 county supervisors in 25 counties, and all but two supervisors served time in prison. By raising the profile of the State Auditor's office, Mabus fundamentally changed how county government functioned in the state.”
·   In 1987 he became the Mississippi counterpart to Bill Clinton, as a new generation of youthful, Democratic Southern Governors.  Featured on the cover of a 1988 New York Times Magazine cover story.
·   Pushed through “one of the most comprehensive education reform programs in America: gave teachers the largest pay raise in the nation”
·   Named one of Fortune Magazine’s top ten education governors.
·   Mississippi also had record growth in new jobs, investment, tourism, and exports.  [Probably due to nation-wide growth but voters never think about such things]
·   Mississippi, for the first time ever, allowed governors to serve two terms instead of one while he was governor, but he narrowly lost reelection to Kirk Fordice, a governor who had a number of controversies (affairs, wearing clothes featuring confederate flags to conferences against affirmative action, fights against teachers unions, etc)
·   A poll had him rated best Mississippi governor of the Millennium.  I’m sure poll-subjects have a rather short memory and aren’t thinking back more than 20ish years, but still it means SOMETHING
·   Mabus was appointed by President Bill Clinton to be the United States ambassador to Saudi Arabia and served from 1994 to 1996. During his tenure, a 1994 border crisis involving Yemen was diffused, a 1994 crisis with Iraq was deterred, a 1995 terrorist attack was weathered, child custody disputes were addressed, and contracts worth more than $16 billion were signed between Saudi Arabian and American companies such as Boeing, AT&T and others. Also, Saudi Arabia officially abandoned the boycott of United States businesses that trade with Israel, and more than $8 million of proposed expenditures for the American mission were cut.
·   While living in Riyadh, Mabus made no secret of his roots, as an American and as a Mississippian. Visitors to his embassy office and his residence were welcomed by a cavalcade of items of interest from back home -- including the Ackerman phone book on his office coffee table and the Mississippi flag, next to the American flag -- as well as a story or two about Mississippi geography, history or current events.
·   He is a member of the RAND Center for Middle East Public Policy and the Council on Foreign Relations, and is the Distinguished Lecturer on the Middle East at the University of Mississippi.
·   He has appeared on many television programs as an expert on the Middle East, including “60 Minutes” and “Nightline.”
·   Since 1996, Mabus serves on various corporate and charitable boards, and is involved in international business.
·   From 2006-April 2007, he was Chairman and CEO of Foamex International and helped lead it out of bankruptcy. Less than nine months after his appointment, Foamex emerged from Chapter 11, paid every qualified creditor 100 cents on the dollar, plus interest, and preserved equity.
·   He has been awarded the U.S. Department of Defense Distinguished Public Service Award, the U.S. Army’s Distinguished Civilian Service Award, the Martin Luther King Social Responsibility Award from the King Center in Atlanta, the National Wildlife Federation Conservation Achievement Award, the King Abdul Aziz Award from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the Mississippi Association of Educators’ Friend of Education Award.
·   He is active in many community activities, primarily focusing on education. Following Hurricane Katrina, he founded the Help and Hope Foundation, which works to meet the needs of children affected by the storm.



So, to recap:
-Military experience + awards
-The MLK Social Responsibility Award probably means he won’t upset African-Americans (not too likely anyway, but why not)
-Economic experience by 1) Being a successful anti-corruption state-auditor 2) Having economic growth as governor 3) Two years ago getting a company he was CEO of out of bankruptcy and paying back investors completely
-Massive education experience, probably more than any other VP candidate.
-EXTENSIVE foreign policy experience.  A large track record of results as ambassador to Saudi Arabia during a semi-turbulent time, lectures on Middle East foreign policy, and has been an early adviser to the Obama campaign on such issues.
-Executive experience as governor
-Is one of the few Washington Outsiders who used to hold office that are not currently lobbyists (unlike Daschle & Gephardt, I believe)
-Popular white Southern Christian male
-59 years old, I think the perfect age for an Obama VP.

In my opinion, it’s bad to be “too good” at something as a vice president because it reminds the public and the pundits what deficiencies you are attempting to cover up yourself.  Similarly, anyone that is “too bad” at something similar to yourself will cause you two to be grouped together, causing you and your VP to be linked as “two liberals” “two people who know nothing about the economy” “two inexperienced candidates,” etcetera.  So, the ideal candidate has more experience than Obama on every front (military, economy, foreign policy, experience) but not too much, is older than Obama but not a dinosaur, and so on.

Ok I’m starting to blush now.   I'm sure that wikipedia page was written by a fan, possibly an ex-lover.  But, he should be on the shortlist, right?

Some bad things:
-Mississippi isn't a swing state.  But on the other hand, it could make Obama look less political in his decision.
-He might not want it.  I doubt it, but it's possible.
-Only 4 years of governor and lost reelection, but this is not THAT bad considering that his career sort of took off after he lost that election.
-His name might sound a little hick-ish, depending on your inclinations and might be a little TOO much the antithesis of an African-American Chicago politician
[ADDED]-Issues with his divorce, I guess he convinced the preacher giving counsel to his ex-wife to divulge the details and some messy stuff.  But, the flip side is that McCain's own divorce isn't exactly a pretty subject to bring up, so any attacks could backfire.

[© tweed]

too late for dark horses.  Cantor might be it

[HardRCafé]

Jon D. Fox - Former two-term Congressman from Pennsylvania, currently Republican chairman in Abington Township, and holds a J.D from Delaware School of Law.  What popped into my mind was that he is one of the few openly "pro-labor" Republicans. 

Wasn't he into some sort of mysticism or psychics?  Also, didn't he only win in 1996 by 10 votes?

[Keystone Phil]

Jon D. Fox - Former two-term Congressman from Pennsylvania, currently Republican chairman in Abington Township, and holds a J.D from Delaware School of Law.  What popped into my mind was that he is one of the few openly "pro-labor" Republicans. 

Wasn't he into some sort of mysticism or psychics?  Also, didn't he only win in 1996 by 10 votes?

Not that I know of. But yes, he beat Hoeffel by under one hundred votes in 1996. He went on to lose to Hoeffel just two years later.

But...we aren't seriously discussing Jon Fox. We definitely aren't. Think of your State Representative. That man or woman has more of a chance at being McCain's running mate than Jon Fox.

[Eraserhead]

Russ Feingold.

[MODU]

Jon D. Fox - Former two-term Congressman from Pennsylvania, currently Republican chairman in Abington Township, and holds a J.D from Delaware School of Law.  What popped into my mind was that he is one of the few openly "pro-labor" Republicans. 

Wasn't he into some sort of mysticism or psychics?  Also, didn't he only win in 1996 by 10 votes?

Not that I know of. But yes, he beat Hoeffel by under one hundred votes in 1996. He went on to lose to Hoeffel just two years later.

But...we aren't seriously discussing Jon Fox. We definitely aren't. Think of your State Representative. That man or woman has more of a chance at being McCain's running mate than Jon Fox.

As I said...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Mr. Morden]

I think Sununu would be a good pick for McCain's running mate, unfortunately he's got that whole being defeated for re-election thing coming up. He was my top pick for awhile.

True, it would be unusual (that's why he's a dark horse).  But really, why not?  He's going to lose that race anyway, so why not drop out and run for veep?  If being popular in your home state is a prerequisite for being a running mate, then why is Romney being considered?  He would surely lose any statewide election in MA.  (Heck, Romney went a step further by running for *president* while being unpopular in his home state.)

[Mr. Morden]

too late for dark horses.  Cantor might be it

In 1996, I don't think Kemp was on any of the short lists leaked to the media until about two days before the selection was announced.  Then again, it might be harder to keep such things under wraps nowadays.

[Keystone Phil]

Jon D. Fox - Former two-term Congressman from Pennsylvania, currently Republican chairman in Abington Township, and holds a J.D from Delaware School of Law.  What popped into my mind was that he is one of the few openly "pro-labor" Republicans. 

Wasn't he into some sort of mysticism or psychics?  Also, didn't he only win in 1996 by 10 votes?

Not that I know of. But yes, he beat Hoeffel by under one hundred votes in 1996. He went on to lose to Hoeffel just two years later.

But...we aren't seriously discussing Jon Fox. We definitely aren't. Think of your State Representative. That man or woman has more of a chance at being McCain's running mate than Jon Fox.

As I said...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I say this with no malicious intent but what the hell does that mean?

[MODU]

I say this with no malicious intent but what the hell does that mean?

If you go back to my initial comment, I picked him out since he was one of the few pro-labor republicans.  If McCain were to pick a pro-labor republican, would it shift a portion of the demographic that is currently on the fence to McCain's side?

[Keystone Phil]

I say this with no malicious intent but what the hell does that mean?

If you go back to my initial comment, I picked him out since he was one of the few pro-labor republicans.  If McCain were to pick a pro-labor republican, would it shift a portion of the demographic that is currently on the fence to McCain's side?

There are several other "Pro Labor" members of Congress that are actually still serving. It just boggles my mind that the most random former member of Congress (from the old PA 13 ) who wasn't in Congress since 1999 was mentioned.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Fox also was unable to win a Republican-held open State Rep seat in a 2004 comeback bid, losing it 52–47.

Wasn't he into some sort of mysticism or psychics?  Also, didn't he only win in 1996 by 10 votes?

Hypnosis!