So Russia and Georgia just went to war

[Erc]

Pretty old news at this point, but (as far as I can tell) hasn't been reported on here.

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Seems the Russians are making the most of their opportunity to bomb the hell out of Georgia.

[StateBoiler]

Pretty old news at this point, but (as far as I can tell) hasn't been reported on here.

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Seems the Russians are making the most of their opportunity to bomb the hell out of Georgia.

Yup.

Latest BBC article:

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[War on Want]

I wonder if Russia is trying to make any moves towards securing the oil pipeline yet. Also does anybody know what Iran, Armenia and Turkey's reactions to this conflict are?

[Middle-aged Europe]

The Georgia news story has merged with the Olympic Games news story: Georgia wants to withdraw its team from the Olympics.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

We'll turn our backs on them like we (not just the US, the West at large) have done many times before all over the world.  If we have nothing to gain but the liberty of others, we're not very consistent about helping.

dude, Georgia is the one that started this conflict.

[Daniel Adams]

We'll turn our backs on them like we (not just the US, the West at large) have done many times before all over the world.  If we have nothing to gain but the liberty of others, we're not very consistent about helping.

dude, Georgia is the one that started this conflict.

Yeah, how dare they try to impose their sovereignity over their own territory?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

We'll turn our backs on them like we (not just the US, the West at large) have done many times before all over the world.  If we have nothing to gain but the liberty of others, we're not very consistent about helping.

dude, Georgia is the one that started this conflict.

Yeah, how dare they try to impose their sovereignity over their own territory?

It depends if you recognize or not referendums of 1992. I don't say it to support a part, that's just an element of the conflict.

[War on Want]

Azerbaijan is actually giving vocal support to Georgia. Not very surprising but does this mean anything?

[??????????]

We'll turn our backs on them like we (not just the US, the West at large) have done many times before all over the world.  If we have nothing to gain but the liberty of others, we're not very consistent about helping.

dude, Georgia is the one that started this conflict.

Dude, Russia is the one ruling over the oil in the region with an iron fist. I can't find much positive to say about the Soviets over the past 90 years.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

We'll turn our backs on them like we (not just the US, the West at large) have done many times before all over the world.  If we have nothing to gain but the liberty of others, we're not very consistent about helping.

dude, Georgia is the one that started this conflict.

Dude, Russia is the one ruling over the oil in the region with an iron fist.

Oh, and for sure West doesn't...

[??????????]

We'll turn our backs on them like we (not just the US, the West at large) have done many times before all over the world.  If we have nothing to gain but the liberty of others, we're not very consistent about helping.

dude, Georgia is the one that started this conflict.

Dude, Russia is the one ruling over the oil in the region with an iron fist. I can't find much positive to say about the Soviets over the past 90 years.

Oh, and for sure West doesn't...

The interests of the west are more in line with helping the people then harming them. Unlike the Soviets. See what the Soviets did to the Ukraine over energy a few years back.

[War on Want]

I actually agree with StatesRights here, Putin's Russia is super manipulative and wants a large Russian sphere. I am surprised they didn't take advantage of the ethnic Russian riots in Estonia.

[GMantis]

Pretty old news at this point, but (as far as I can tell) hasn't been reported on here.

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Seems the Russians are making the most of their opportunity to bomb the hell out of Georgia.

Yup.

Latest BBC article:

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Which is way Saakashvilli was such an idiot to begin this.

We'll turn our backs on them like we (not just the US, the West at large) have done many times before all over the world.  If we have nothing to gain but the liberty of others, we're not very consistent about helping.

dude, Georgia is the one that started this conflict.

Dude, Russia is the one ruling over the oil in the region with an iron fist. I can't find much positive to say about the Soviets over the past 90 years.

Oh, and for sure West doesn't...

The interests of the west are more in line with helping the people then harming them. Unlike the Soviets. See what the Soviets did to the Ukraine over energy a few years back.

Yeah, how dare those damn Soviets (somehow existing 13 years after their collapse) impose market prices on the Ukraine!

[StateBoiler]

I actually agree with StatesRights here, Putin's Russia is super manipulative and wants a large Russian sphere.

Well no sh*t. Russia's looking out for Russia's interests. Georgia's looking out for Georgia's interests. Those interersts intersect and that's why there is war. A lot of people in this thread need to go read Clausewitz. It'll do you some good.

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[??????????]

Yeah, how dare those damn Soviets (somehow existing 13 years after their collapse) impose market prices on the Ukraine!

They shall remain soviets until they actually prove otherwise.

[2952-0-0]

Anyone find it fitting that the Russians are bombing Stalin's hometown right now?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

I actually agree with StatesRights here, Putin's Russia is super manipulative and wants a large Russian sphere. I am surprised they didn't take advantage of the ethnic Russian riots in Estonia.

Yeah, we're effectively speaking about Russia (where the hell are the soviets on Earth??? In the French LCR maybe...)

Estonia? Russia is wanna be imperialist, but not crazy, Estonia was a Web War, and for a while it had consequences for the Estonian Web.

The interests of the west are more in line with helping the people then harming them. Unlike the Soviets. See what the Soviets did to the Ukraine over energy a few years back.

West hasn't an only strategy, it is more pragmatic than that...

[War on Want]

I actually agree with StatesRights here, Putin's Russia is super manipulative and wants a large Russian sphere.

Well no sh*t. Russia's looking out for Russia's interests. Georgia's looking out for Georgia's interests. Those interersts intersect and that's why there is war. A lot of people in this thread need to go read Clausewitz. It'll do you some good.

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haha of course, I am just saying that it should be no surprise this is happening and I still support Georgia because their interests align more with mine. I was predicting that Georgia and Russia would go to war in 2006 anyways.

[GMantis]

Yeah, how dare those damn Soviets (somehow existing 13 years after their collapse) impose market prices on the Ukraine!

They shall remain soviets until they actually prove otherwise.

Strange Soviets, to deal with the Ukraine on market principles - which all the crisis was about.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

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More simply, I would say: War is a part of politics.

[StateBoiler]

Here's an article written by an American armchair admiral.

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2008/08/observing-outbreak-of-war-in-georgia.html

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This is the first sign of DoD mobilization for the military events unfolding in Georgia, and simply saying it out loud is sure to bring in a political perspective. Cutting through the spin, the Air Force has been asked and may be ordered to conduct a major airlift from Iraq to Georgia of all 2000 Georgian troops that have been part of the coalition forces in Iraq. That is certainly one twist in events we intend to keep an eye on. The politics of using an air base in Iraq to support an airlift into a war zone outside Iraq is the stuff the political spinners dream about.

Day two of the conflict featured a massive increase in Russian air power, including the use of Russian Strategic Bombers hitting Air Bases and other targets in Georgia. The number of sorties increased by about 4 fold, and we expect will continue to increase. We note this in the NY Times article, which implies escalation is likely.

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Last night the Russian Air Force reportedly devastated the Georgian Black Sea port of Poti. Local language (unverified) internet reports suggest both the Slava class cruiser Moskva and the Kara class cruiser Kerch are part of Russian naval group that deployed, and the Kilo class submarine Alrosa was reportedly not in port. The number of and types of other Russian naval vessels has not been reported. Speculation by some local sources suggests an amphibious operation may be in the works. Specifically there are some local internet reports of activity among the three Ropucha class LSTs. We want to reiterate that these reports are unverified, but note that because of where these unofficial internet reports are coming from, they may be credible.

Several implications here. The use of air power in the Kodori Gorge in Abkhazia and if Amphibious forces are soon to put to sea, the implication is Russia may be looking to opening a second front. The movement of the Black Sea Fleet towards Georgia could be a tactical move to cut off supply to Georgia, and nothing says 'turn around' faster than a Kilo SSK guarding the port entrance. These types of major events give implication that Russia is moving towards a campaign of consolidation, rather than a peacekeeping action. The next few days will tell the story, but it looks like we may need to redraw some border lines in that region in the near future.

Georgia is not well known by Americans, and while we can hear the stories, read the history, and understand the events it is still very difficult to follow events of war in foreign lands. Luckily, it is easier to follow war from home in the 21st century than any other time in history, and all you need is a little advice. This is our advice.

Use the map in this post as a cross reference with Google Earth. Zoom in on Georgia and follow the press reports. While not all places are on the Google Earth map, most are, and one can use markers to track air strikes and where ground forces are based on press reports. Using about twenty press reports this morning we were able to track air strikes and where the ground combat is taking place, thus get a good feel for how early events are unfolding. These are amateur tools using open source media information, but if you were a professional, you would already have the tools to track the action.

We note that despite a number of bombings very near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline, it is reported that the pipeline has 'miraculously' survived undamaged. Such miracles in war are hardly so accidental. As the pipeline is a strategically important aspect of the Georgian economy, but is also a very important part of the regional economy, it is just one more odd detail worth keeping an eye on.

While we are aware of US Navy activity in the Black Sea, we will let other news sources discuss specific forces in the region. It is enough to say the US Navy is there, with exactly the kind of capabilities one would want the US to have in a confusing, evolving war where one country may feel obligated to protect themselves from an attack by sea. Should Georgia open up with anti-ship missiles against Russian targets at sea, or if either side should engage in unrestricted war at sea in the eastern Black Sea, the US Navy does not have the forces in the region yet to protect or support unarmed commercial vessels. Our advice to commercial shipping is to run west, those waters to the east are not safe.[/quote]

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Luckily, France, in the name of EU, comes in the game and say:

"Please turn back to your positions of before the war"

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080809/wl_afp/georgiasossetiarussiaunrest_080809203148;_ylt=Av1VBQTjbEEFSUJapBQW8Z6s0NUE

...

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I actually agree with StatesRights here, Putin's Russia is super manipulative and wants a large Russian sphere. I am surprised they didn't take advantage of the ethnic Russian riots in Estonia.

and that's EXACTLY the reason why Georgia shouldn't have provided the Russians an excuse.

[opebo]

and that's EXACTLY the reason why Georgia shouldn't have provided the Russians an excuse.

I couldn't agree more.  What fools!

[Silent Hunter]

and that's EXACTLY the reason why Georgia shouldn't have provided the Russians an excuse.

Putin/Medvedev would find any reason.

Why should Georgia, or any other state, have to conduct its affairs around what pleases Moscow? Or Washington?