Proportional Representation (Class A seats) Act (Debate Open)

[Colin]

Proportional Representation (Class A seats) Act

1.The provisions of the Proportional Representation Act (F.L. 21-2), as amended by the Proportional Representation (By-Elections) Act (F.L. 25-4), shall also apply to Class A seats.
2. This Act shall not take effect until directed by an Executive Order of the President of Atlasia directing same.


Sponsor: Lewis Trondheim

[DownWithTheLeft]

Wait would this eliminate regional seats without a vote?

[Colin]

Wait would this eliminate regional seats without a vote?

No, this just sets the legal guidelines for proportional elections for Class A seats. The amendment is needed to make them proportional.

[Torie]

Somebody needs to explain in detail how this will make for a better game, or my constituents chime in (not their forte thus far it appears), or I will be voting against this.

[CultureKing]

Somebody needs to explain in detail how this will make for a better game, or my constituents chime in (not their forte thus far it appears), or I will be voting against this.

Woah! I am one of your constituents! I think its a horrible idea! Yay! The JCP is pretty clear in that it opposes this (at least that is my assuption from previous experiences.) I am not so sure about the others from the Pacific, but that is at least a sizeable chunk.

[Vasall des Midas]

Somebody needs to explain in detail how this will make for a better game.

It depends what you consider "a better game" to be. It will provide for fewer (presumably for no) uncontested elections and a less random Senate composition. (But not necessarily for a more active Senate. )

[Vasall des Midas]

There'll be an amendment tomorrow, fixing the law for filling vacancies at what is court-ordered currently anyhow.

[Vasall des Midas]

Proportional Representation (Class A seats) Act

1.The provisions of the Proportional Representation Act (F.L. 21-2), as amended by Clauses 1 and 2 of the Proportional Representation (By-Elections) Act (F.L. 25-4), shall also apply to Class A seats.
2. This Act shall not take effect until directed by an Executive Order of the President of Atlasia directing same.


Friendly amendment.

[Colin]

Senators have 24 hours to reject accepting the amendment as friendly.

[Torie]

I accept it as friendly, but it is not my amendment, so I don't know if I have standing to do that.

I will be opposing this Bill however. It basically guts the meaning of the regions on a federal level. It just becomes an address, and perhaps a mischievous one as folks more around to game the system. Indeed, it makes voting even more complex, as you try to figure out how your vote hierarchy interplays with who is from which region, and in play vis a vis other candidates of that region.

[Јas]

I accept it as friendly, but it is not my amendment, so I don't know if I have standing to do that.

The adoption of a friendly amendment can be objected to by any sitting Senator within the relevant 24 hour period.

[Torie]

Thanks Jas.

[Vasall des Midas]

It basically guts the meaning of the regions on a federal level.

Regional government retains all its powers.

It just becomes an address, and perhaps a mischievous one as folks more around to game the system.

People used to do that a lot when we also had 5 regional seats, 5 district seats and no PR seats at all. Which is why we eventually introduced limits on address changes. With PR, there is no point. Of course, you can still move to a region with likeminded people in it - but it won't affect federal election results anymore.

Indeed, it makes voting even more complex, as you try to figure out how your vote hierarchy interplays with who is from which region, and in play vis a vis other candidates of that region.

Do you? I don't.

Although I half-and-half suspect right now that your comments were aimed at Xahar's proposal over in the other thread - they fit that much better...

[Torie]

You may be right Lewis. I take it this proposal leaves only residents of a region eligible to vote for a class A senator in that region? Is that correct? I thought this was a proposal to nationalize the Class A seats, but insure one from each region was elected.

[Vasall des Midas]

You may be right Lewis. I take it this proposal leaves only residents of a region eligible to vote for a class A senator in that region? Is that correct? I thought this was a proposal to nationalize the Class A seats, but insure one from each region was elected.

That was Xahar's proposal (which your words about how this really undermined them sort of fit very well.) This is a proposal to nationalize the Class A seats full stop.
There's an amendment and a bill because we don't want all the technicalities of the PR Act in the Constitutional Text.

[Torie]

You may be right Lewis. I take it this proposal leaves only residents of a region eligible to vote for a class A senator in that region? Is that correct? I thought this was a proposal to nationalize the Class A seats, but insure one from each region was elected.

That was Xahar's proposal (which your words about how this really undermined them sort of fit very well.) This is a proposal to nationalize the Class A seats full stop.
There's an amendment and a bill because we don't want all the technicalities of the PR Act in the Constitutional Text.

Which proposal is one that nationalizes the Class A seats "full stop?" Sorry to be so obtuse. I don't want to nationalize the Class A seats.

[Vasall des Midas]

You may be right Lewis. I take it this proposal leaves only residents of a region eligible to vote for a class A senator in that region? Is that correct? I thought this was a proposal to nationalize the Class A seats, but insure one from each region was elected.

That was Xahar's proposal (which your words about how this really undermined them sort of fit very well.) This is a proposal to nationalize the Class A seats full stop.
There's an amendment and a bill because we don't want all the technicalities of the PR Act in the Constitutional Text.

Which proposal is one that nationalizes the Class A seats "full stop?" Sorry to be so obtuse. I don't want to nationalize the Class A seats.

Mine. This one. This is a proposal to elect Class A seats by the exact same procedure as Class B seats.

You're free to vote it down. I'll just reintroduce it next session. These kinds of battles can take a while.

[Torie]

We need to put up the language of the sections that you are applying to the Class A seats. I was looking for them right now. So your proposal does gut the regions on a federal level. They have no meaning whatsoever. I get it. If we are going to do this, why not  just get rid of the regions in toto?  What purpose do they serve?  What purpose have they served? How have they added to the game, outside Senate elections, of any real substance? We can just have fictive regions for purposes of the scope of the federal powers.

[Vasall des Midas]

We need to put up the language of the sections that you are applying to the Class A seats. I was looking for them right now. So your proposal does gut the regions on a federal level. They have no meaning whatsoever. I get it.

Regional government retains all its powers.

It removes them from the federal election process entirely, yes. Believe me, if you've ever desperately sought somebody to take over a regional Senate seat, you won't think this is a bad idea. When I first moved to the Midwest from the Pacific, I was actually drafted into the region by then Governor, Jas, as its next Senator. When I was recently offered the position of SoFA (when it became obvious that Inks would not be confirmed, before Earl was approached. IIRC I wasn't the first candidate approached though.) I refused because I couldn't think of anybody to bequeathe my Senate seat to. With a heavy heart, might I add.

[Torie]

What regions are comatose at the moment?

[Torie]

I move to table this legislation.

[Vasall des Midas]

What regions are comatose at the moment?

Depends how you define comatose I suppose, but when you discount people not interested, people holding other positions, and people whom a clear majority of the region wouldn't want to represent them, the candidate pool is pretty damn shallow in the Mideast, Midwest, and Pacific.

[Torie]

Hey I am from the Pacific. Let's not get personal.

Thanks for helping me work with through this Lewis. I appreciate it. Run for a Class B seat, and you will have my first preference.  Best.

[DownWithTheLeft]

What regions are comatose at the moment?

Depends how you define comatose I suppose, but when you discount people not interested, people holding other positions, and people whom a clear majority of the region wouldn't want to represent them, the candidate pool is pretty damn shallow in the Mideast, Midwest, and Pacific.

Yeah!  The Southeast is off the dormant region list

[Vasall des Midas]

Hey I am from the Pacific. Let's not get personal.

Thanks for helping me work with through this Lewis. I appreciate it. Run for a Class B seat, and you will have my first preference.  Best.

I can't. Who'd take my Class A seat?

What regions are comatose at the moment?

Depends how you define comatose I suppose, but when you discount people not interested, people holding other positions, and people whom a clear majority of the region wouldn't want to represent them, the candidate pool is pretty damn shallow in the Mideast, Midwest, and Pacific.

Yeah!  The Southeast is off the dormant region list

For now.