Wow, Hillary just plunged the convention into CHAOS!

[Wrecking Ball and Chain]

What was JJ's quote, exactly?

No one quote in particular. But you can see this for the gist:

J.J. and Keystone, what exactly, if anything, do you think will happen?

I want it on record so we can evaluate the record in a month or so.

Or is this some amorphous thing that can be neither proved nor disproved?

Two things she could do.

1.  Royally screw up the schedule, forcing some of the things outside of prime time (shades of 1972).

2.  Have a sizable, but a minority, vote for her for President, or Vice President to make the news story be, "35-45% of the Democrats Don't want Obama/_______."

Now, it's the PR battle, not the procedural battle, but Obama wins in the Fall of 2008, Hillary really doesn't have any place to go.  She has little to lose, and may be able to become the king-maker, if not the Queen, of the Democratic Party.

J.J. and Keystone, what exactly, if anything, do you think will happen?

I want it on record so we can evaluate the record in a month or so.

Or is this some amorphous thing that can be neither proved nor disproved?

Two things she could do.

1.  Royally screw up the schedule, forcing some of the things outside of prime time (shades of 1972).

This will not happen.

That's more than a bit optimistic.

2.  Have a sizable, but a minority, vote for her for President, or Vice President to make the news story be, "35-45% of the Democrats Don't want Obama/_______."

A sizeable minority will not vote for her for Vice President.

She received about 1800 delegates for President. Those delegates may be voting for her, but they will all be cheering for Obama. The correct story would be "Hillary's delegates for vote Hillary." No less, no more.

You are confusing the version which you'd like to see with the one we all might see.  The story of "Democratic Disunity" has been running since Bill Clinton's comments.

The is another thing they can do; walk out.  It's happened before.  Procedurally silly, but great political theater.

[Harry]

God damn, just call him McCain.  We get that you think McCain is like Bush, but it can get annoying when you say "McSame" ten times in one sentence.

Grow up, would you?

I never saw you complain when people on this forum said "Killary" or "Shrillary" or any other perversion of her name...

[Gravis Marketing]

There is no scenario or series of events that could have happened that wouldn't have people claim that Hillary successfully undermined the ticket and the PUMAs are handing the election to McCain. All roads lead to Rome.

[Josh/Devilman88]

God damn, just call him McCain.  We get that you think McCain is like Bush, but it can get annoying when you say "McSame" ten times in one sentence.

Grow up, would you?

I never saw you complain when people on this forum said "Killary" or "Shrillary" or any other perversion of her name...

That becasue Hillary is bad, but McSame is great and will lead this country just like the great Bush did.

[J. J.]

Obama may have lost the PR battle, in regard to the PUMAs, but also in regard to the more moderate women.  Some of it could have been stemmed.  In that respect, so far it failed.

[All life is a blur of Republicans and meat.]

Obama may have lost the PR battle, in regard to the PUMAs, but also in regard to the more moderate women.  Some of it could have been stemmed.  In that respect, so far it failed.

How does the Kool-Aid taste today, J.J.?

[Wrecking Ball and Chain]

Please note J. J. has attempted to spin EVERY SINGLE THING at the convention, even the almost universally received things like Michelle Obama's speech.

[J. J.]

Please note J. J. has attempted to spin EVERY SINGLE THING at the convention, even the almost universally received things like Michelle Obama's speech.

BRTD, I've posted a couple of times now how much I like Michelle and her speech.  She defined herself and her life experience very well.  I've also said that she seems like the most real person in either campaign.  Only a complete hack, or an illiterate, could call that negative.

I think are some shortcomings in the convention so far.  Not enough red meat attacks is one of them; that is not exactly anti-Obama, and we've other commentators saying exactly thing.

The second problem is, the convention has not defined Obama the person.  I think that is a mistake because it will let the GOP define him (not accurately).

[cp]

I think it's hard to spin the reaction of the former Clinton supporters as anything but a success for Obama. They made their stand and got their voices heard in the roll call and had their hero point the way when Hillary gave her speech. The degree of support shown for Clinton as opposed to Obama in these instances was *supposed* to happen. It's part of the pageantry of the event and, most importantly, it's a catharsis.

Hillary supporters got a final opportunity to show their devotion, mourn their loss, and leach out  their animosity. With the convention concluded, Hillary and Bill out of the limelight, and Obama anointed as the party's standard bearer the PUMA attitude will diminish and disappear.

And if that won't work, watching a week of what the alternative to Obama is should whip even the most unreconstructed Clintonite into line.

[Gravis Marketing]

The second problem is, the convention has not defined Obama the person.  I think that is a mistake because it will let the GOP define him (not accurately).

I've heard lots of people talking about Obama, and it's kind of boring and reverential... not sure anyone could have done better. However, the man himself is speaking tonight. Does that pretty much define "defining himself"?

[Stranger in a strange land]

I think it's hard to spin the reaction of the former Clinton supporters as anything but a success for Obama. They made their stand and got their voices heard in the roll call and had their hero point the way when Hillary gave her speech. The degree of support shown for Clinton as opposed to Obama in these instances was *supposed* to happen. It's part of the pageantry of the event and, most importantly, it's a catharsis.

Hillary supporters got a final opportunity to show their devotion, mourn their loss, and leach out  their animosity. With the convention concluded, Hillary and Bill out of the limelight, and Obama anointed as the party's standard bearer the PUMA attitude will diminish and disappear.

And if that won't work, watching a week of what the alternative to Obama is should whip even the most unreconstructed Clintonite into line.

I hope you're right, but I have a feeling that many of the hardcore PUMAs are opposing Obama not out of love for Hillary, but for reasons of age and race: either they feel he's too young to be president or they simply don't like the idea of a black man in the white house. Why else would so many feminist women support a candidate who promises to appoint strict constructionists to the supreme court?

[cp]

I think you're reading too much into the PUMA's intentions. I doubt they ever really had any affection for John McCain. It's sort of like the 'anybody-but-Bush' sentiment from 2004. It could be a ham sandwich carrying the Republican banner, they'd still say they were voting for it.

The PUMA's have never been about the policies or ideology of the candidates. Their objections are superficial: their girl lost, so they don't want the guy who beat her to win. They'll make as much noise and get as much attention - Democrats for McCain is a headline grabber - to get that point across as they can.

Luckily for the Democrats, such skin-deep wounds are easily healed by mass demonstrations and alcohol-fueled gladhanding among friends.

[MSUfan]

Please note J. J. has attempted to spin EVERY SINGLE THING at the convention, even the almost universally received things like Michelle Obama's speech.

BRTD, I've posted a couple of times now how much I like Michelle and her speech.  She defined herself and her life experience very well.  I've also said that she seems like the most real person in either campaign.  Only a complete hack, or an illiterate, could call that negative.

I think are some shortcomings in the convention so far.  Not enough red meat attacks is one of them; that is not exactly anti-Obama, and we've other commentators saying exactly thing.

The second problem is, the convention has not defined Obama the person.  I think that is a mistake because it will let the GOP define him (not accurately).

Comments like these are the type which shows that no matter what ever happened in the Convention, no matter how successful it was, J.J. would find something to criticize about it. Heck, if it had to come down to it, J.J. would probably have resorted to saying something like: "Hillary isn't wearing the right pantsuit for this speech, it doesn't resonate well with the men audience." 

[J. J.]

Please note J. J. has attempted to spin EVERY SINGLE THING at the convention, even the almost universally received things like Michelle Obama's speech.

BRTD, I've posted a couple of times now how much I like Michelle and her speech.  She defined herself and her life experience very well.  I've also said that she seems like the most real person in either campaign.  Only a complete hack, or an illiterate, could call that negative.

I think are some shortcomings in the convention so far.  Not enough red meat attacks is one of them; that is not exactly anti-Obama, and we've other commentators saying exactly thing.

The second problem is, the convention has not defined Obama the person.  I think that is a mistake because it will let the GOP define him (not accurately).

Comments like these are the type which shows that no matter what ever happened in the Convention, no matter how successful it was, J.J. would find something to criticize about it. Heck, if it had to come down to it, J.J. would probably have resorted to saying something like: "Hillary isn't wearing the right pantsuit for this speech, it doesn't resonate well with the men audience." 

Except, so far, it has not been hugely successful.  More pluses than minuses, but a B+ in the words of Harold Ford.  Not great, but not terrible either.

Frankly, the 1996 DNC was terrible, but Bill Clinton's speech was great.  The speech was the key.  Conversely the 1996 RNC was great, but Dole's speech was terrible; that was the key as well.

[Wrecking Ball and Chain]

I don't know who was funnier in this thread, J. J. or Josh.

[J. J.]

I don't know who was funnier in this thread, J. J. or Josh.

You, bringing it up again.

[Grad Students are the Worst]

I don't know who was funnier in this thread, J. J. or Josh.

You, bringing it up again.

No, sorry.  BRTD is most obnoxious; you are incontestably most hilarious.

[J. J.]

I don't know who was funnier in this thread, J. J. or Josh.

You, bringing it up again.

No, sorry.  BRTD is most obnoxious; you are incontestably most hilarious.

The realignment should be quite humorous.

[Joe Republic]

The realignment should be quite humorous.

Is 'the realignment' your new meme, I presume?

[Meeker]

The realignment should be quite humorous.

Is 'the realignment' your new meme, I presume?

Old meme being rehashed. He just sort of recycles material and then hopes everyone forgets what a moron he was in the past.

[J. J.]

The realignment should be quite humorous.

Is 'the realignment' your new meme, I presume?

Old meme being rehashed. He just sort of recycles material and then hopes everyone forgets what a moron he was in the past.

When I predict, it is generally for well beyond one election cycle, in this case by 2016.  What you don't understand is that it is 2010, and we might be seeing signs of it, oh, I don't know, tomorrow?

[Grad Students are the Worst]

The realignment should be quite humorous.

Is 'the realignment' your new meme, I presume?

Old meme being rehashed. He just sort of recycles material and then hopes everyone forgets what a moron he was in the past.

When I predict, it is generally for well beyond one election cycle, in this case by 2016.  What you don't understand is that it is 2010, and we might be seeing signs of it, oh, I don't know, tomorrow?

About a week ago I got a fortune cookie that read, "You may win a contest."  I thought of you.  I thought you'd want to know.