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Author Topic: Israel to rise threshold to Knesset to 2.5%  (Read 7588 times)
Esteban Manuel
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« on: February 19, 2004, 02:00:25 pm »
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New extracted from Maariv internet edition (in english) 02.19.04.

Israel's electoral system is one's of most democratic in the world in terms of it application of PR (Propotional Representation) cause applies RP with a very low threshold wich gave an output of a very close relation of votes and seats.

On the other hand is the output of a larger number of parties with parlamentary representation (over 10), 5 of them with 10 o more seats (from a total of 120 seats). The biggest party (by now Likud) have 39 seats and the smallest 2 (Yisrael B'aliya).
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2004, 02:05:32 pm »
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That will probably do some good, I'm generally in favour of low thresholds, but in Israel's case they could do with strengthening the bigger parties and get rid of some exrtemists.
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2004, 02:12:27 pm »
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it was 1% for years and we had en electio with 15-16 diffrent parties in thr Knesset, so it became 1.5% but it still a problem of too fractional parlament. 2.5% is about right
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Esteban Manuel
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2004, 02:30:01 pm »
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it was 1% for years and we had en electio with 15-16 diffrent parties in thr Knesset, so it became 1.5% but it still a problem of too fractional parlament. 2.5% is about right

i said 5% being moderate, but i actually think that they need at least a 7-8% threshold, cause to get a 61 votes coalition it's necesary a compromise wich make imposible to lead the peace process succesfully. Think in current PM with a 67 majority and he can't withdraw for Gaza (wich isn't a big prize ) imagine him attempting to withdraw from West Bank!
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2004, 02:37:19 pm »
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that's not a question of majority in the Knesset. Rabin passed Oslo agreement in 61-59 vote with one mk that got a deputy minister post changing his mind for the agreement in the very last minute
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Esteban Manuel
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2004, 02:47:59 pm »
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that's not a question of majority in the Knesset. Rabin passed Oslo agreement in 61-59 vote with one mk that got a deputy minister post changing his mind for the agreement in the very last minute

Yes, but you have to agree with that right now are even harder (if that's posible) to get compromise in Knesset specially with all the european antisemitism issue, and the increase in violence. I'm not saying that labor have a solution, no way! What i'm saying is that for both (Avoda and Likud) is getting harder gain enough support for messures that have to be radical.

It's true that Rabin could gain the support for Oslo, but it's true too that for 30 years labor was the state-party and that's no true anymore. What i'm saying is that to govern is getting harder in Israel, and in fact the leght of cabinets are getting shorter.
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2004, 02:54:06 pm »
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true but the reason us the switch for direct vote for primeminister in 1996-1999 that was scrap back meanwhile. people voted small parties and pm , now it the old system. that why Likud came back to 40 mp's, best shoing since 1992 Avoda's 44 under Rabin r.i.p
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2004, 03:55:11 pm »
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true but the reason us the switch for direct vote for primeminister in 1996-1999 that was scrap back meanwhile. people voted small parties and pm , now it the old system. that why Likud came back to 40 mp's, best shoing since 1992 Avoda's 44 under Rabin r.i.p

But the return to parlamentary election of PM didn't make things easier to form strong (working) coalition. It just solve the problem of an eventually cohabitation (using the french term)
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

Major Jack D Ripper : Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2004, 03:59:51 pm »
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true but the reason us the switch for direct vote for primeminister in 1996-1999 that was scrap back meanwhile. people voted small parties and pm , now it the old system. that why Likud came back to 40 mp's, best shoing since 1992 Avoda's 44 under Rabin r.i.p

But the return to parlamentary election of PM didn't make things easier to form strong (working) coalition. It just solve the problem of an eventually cohabitation (using the french term)

true but it was always a problem
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Esteban Manuel
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2004, 04:03:25 pm »
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true but the reason us the switch for direct vote for primeminister in 1996-1999 that was scrap back meanwhile. people voted small parties and pm , now it the old system. that why Likud came back to 40 mp's, best shoing since 1992 Avoda's 44 under Rabin r.i.p

But the return to parlamentary election of PM didn't make things easier to form strong (working) coalition. It just solve the problem of an eventually cohabitation (using the french term)

true but it was always a problem

not in the 48-73 period (until Yom Kippur war)
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2004, 04:05:40 pm »
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true. up to 77' it was one major party

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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2004, 12:01:08 am »
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Yisra'el B'aliyah merged with Likud, which now has a combined total of 40 seats. (Where did you get 39?) One Arab party also had 2 seats, perhaps you counded the Arabs as one party (combined total of 8?)
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2004, 12:03:58 am »
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http://www.knesset.gov.il/mk/eng/mkindex_current_eng.asp?view=1

MKs by faction, in English.
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Esteban Manuel
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2004, 12:19:30 am »
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http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00jx0

In english too. And anyway, 1 more or less seat for Likud isn't big deal, until 2003 maybe but now definely not.

Knesset:

Likud (including Yisrael B'aliya): 40
Labor (avoda - meimad): 19
Shinui (T. Lapid): 15
Shas: 11
Israel Beitenu: 7
NRP: 6
Meretz: 6

And another 5 minor parties with less than 5 seats each one (and yes there're 2 arab parties -specifically lists- with 2 and 3 seats each one).

Total number of parties w/ parlamentary representation: 12 (however are lists and not exatly parties)
total seats: 120 (as we know)

Total number of seat for 4 mayor parties: 85 (little more than 2/3).

End of the resumé, M was right even when the mistake wasn't too big. But, who said that the're one arab party?
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

Major Jack D Ripper : Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2004, 12:30:54 am »
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Chadash, the Marxist party, is seen as an Arab party, though they fairly recently had one Jewish MK, Tamar Gojanski. The MKs are: Mohammad Barakeh, Issam Makhoul, and Ahmad Tibi. Definitely a majority Arab party. Though as the name (Hebrew for new) suggests, it was founded by Jews.

Shas is not really in the same league as Likud, Labor, or even Shinui. Number of votes are misleading. And they're declining even in Sphardic communities.

The most important parties with zero representation are Herut (Jabotinskyite, makes Effie Eitam look lefty, still consider the East Bank part of the Greater Land of Israel,) Green Leaf (legalize pot!), and the Greens (need I elaborate?).
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2004, 03:29:25 am »
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 90% of Chadash voters are arabs and 100% of the mk
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Esteban Manuel
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2004, 09:20:11 am »
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Chadash, the Marxist party, is seen as an Arab party, though they fairly recently had one Jewish MK, Tamar Gojanski. The MKs are: Mohammad Barakeh, Issam Makhoul, and Ahmad Tibi. Definitely a majority Arab party. Though as the name (Hebrew for new) suggests, it was founded by Jews.

Shas is not really in the same league as Likud, Labor, or even Shinui. Number of votes are misleading. And they're declining even in Sphardic communities.

The most important parties with zero representation are Herut (Jabotinskyite, makes Effie Eitam look lefty, still consider the East Bank part of the Greater Land of Israel,) Green Leaf (legalize pot!), and the Greens (need I elaborate?).

definely someone will get a job in the PM office! M are u jew?
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

Major Jack D Ripper : Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
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Esteban Manuel
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2004, 09:35:12 am »
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Anaway Marakesh was head of list, the "arability" of that party is clear.

About Shas, yes, could be declaning and be part of another League, but even then is the 4th party and eventually could support a turn right of Sharon.

It's interesting that Sharon have a 68 mayority, but the other 52 aren't left-wing parties. Another 16 votes are right, that's the mattress.

Isn't funny that more that 2/3 of Knesset are right votes. Sad

Correction: there're 8 arab votes in Knesset. I was wrong cause Hadash wasn't in my original count. Sorry.

So there're 5,3,2, arabs votes in Knesset.
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

Major Jack D Ripper : Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
Captain Lionel Mandrake : No, I don't think I do, sir, no.
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2004, 10:26:34 am »
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Shinui, 15 mk use to be part of meretz. they had 2 out of meretz 9-12 mk in thr 90s. Lapid brought them to 15 alone' they are free market anti religous liberals , nor right wingers
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Esteban Manuel
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2004, 01:02:02 pm »
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Shinui, 15 mk use to be part of meretz. they had 2 out of meretz 9-12 mk in thr 90s. Lapid brought them to 15 alone' they are free market anti religous liberals , nor right wingers

Lapid... is like a kiind of Dan Meridor but in the right. If Meridor was a preview of Netanyahu's fall, Yoseph Lapid sent Meretz to 2nd league. And isn't kinda dirt to endorses Sharon's coalition when the platform with wich won in 2003 whas liberal anti-religious?

                                         
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

Major Jack D Ripper : Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
Captain Lionel Mandrake : No, I don't think I do, sir, no.
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2004, 01:04:14 pm »
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he is left of Meridor and it is somewhat 'dirty' and that why Shas is not in thr coalition
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2004, 03:07:56 pm »
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Yes, I am Jewish and closely follow Israeli politics, read JPost, Haaretz, and Debkafile every day. Sometimes also arutz7.
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2004, 03:10:47 pm »
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I live in Israel (and jewish o/c)  r u Manuel?
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Esteban Manuel
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2004, 03:38:22 pm »
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i read jpost, maariv (english internet edition) and sometimes debkafiles, at least as long as i can't, and not, i'm not jew but i'm really interested in their politics, culture and history.
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

Major Jack D Ripper : Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
Captain Lionel Mandrake : No, I don't think I do, sir, no.
                      (From Dr. Strangelove)
Esteban Manuel
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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2004, 03:44:48 pm »
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I live in Israel (and jewish o/c)  r u Manuel?


Where do u live in Israel?
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Esteban Manuel De la Huerta

Major Jack D Ripper : Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
Captain Lionel Mandrake : No, I don't think I do, sir, no.
                      (From Dr. Strangelove)
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