Inks.LWC v. Governor of the Mideast (Benconstine)
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  Inks.LWC v. Governor of the Mideast (Benconstine)
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Author Topic: Inks.LWC v. Governor of the Mideast (Benconstine)  (Read 4506 times)
Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2008, 08:13:48 PM »
« edited: September 06, 2008, 08:15:36 PM by Fmr. Chairman, Fmr. Governor, & Queen Mum Inks.LWC »

I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here, you can not count a ballot that was done in the wrong format.  I advise a complete revote from start to finish.

But the ballot was done in no format at all.  He simply put up a list.  The law never states that you have to explain what form of voting is to be used.  Is this an official ruling from you?

If so, what all does the Governor have to say in terms of instructions on how to vote?

EDIT: Also, if this is an official ruling, then the same would go for the Lt. Governor election, and as the Constitution states, preferential voting is to be used.  You would have to invalidate the Lt. Governor's election results as well.
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HappyWarrior
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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2008, 07:07:31 AM »

I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here, you can not count a ballot that was done in the wrong format.  I advise a complete revote from start to finish.
In that case, I don't know if I can do this but someone with standing (cough, Inks, cough) should move to have this go to the Supreme Court as HappyWarrior has a clear conflict of interest.

And what conflict is that?  Do you think I would honestly allow something to conflict with my interpretation of the law?  Frankly I am offended.

I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here, you can not count a ballot that was done in the wrong format.  I advise a complete revote from start to finish.

But the ballot was done in no format at all.  He simply put up a list.  The law never states that you have to explain what form of voting is to be used.  Is this an official ruling from you?

If so, what all does the Governor have to say in terms of instructions on how to vote?

EDIT: Also, if this is an official ruling, then the same would go for the Lt. Governor election, and as the Constitution states, preferential voting is to be used.  You would have to invalidate the Lt. Governor's election results as well.

Then so be it, hold a new Lt. Governor election if need be.  However I believe(at least this is how it worked in my term) that when a Lt. Governor is Appointed rather than elected, a simple yea or nay is all that is required.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2008, 10:06:18 AM »

I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here, you can not count a ballot that was done in the wrong format.  I advise a complete revote from start to finish.
In that case, I don't know if I can do this but someone with standing (cough, Inks, cough) should move to have this go to the Supreme Court as HappyWarrior has a clear conflict of interest.

And what conflict is that?  Do you think I would honestly allow something to conflict with my interpretation of the law?  Frankly I am offended.

I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here, you can not count a ballot that was done in the wrong format.  I advise a complete revote from start to finish.

But the ballot was done in no format at all.  He simply put up a list.  The law never states that you have to explain what form of voting is to be used.  Is this an official ruling from you?

If so, what all does the Governor have to say in terms of instructions on how to vote?

EDIT: Also, if this is an official ruling, then the same would go for the Lt. Governor election, and as the Constitution states, preferential voting is to be used.  You would have to invalidate the Lt. Governor's election results as well.

Then so be it, hold a new Lt. Governor election if need be.  However I believe(at least this is how it worked in my term) that when a Lt. Governor is Appointed rather than elected, a simple yea or nay is all that is required.

It is, but he didn't specify how to vote.  That's the violation that you're claiming he made in the Assembly election.  I'm simply asking what law(s) you're basing that on, and whether you're giving an official ruling.
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Franzl
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« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2008, 10:12:55 AM »

I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here, you can not count a ballot that was done in the wrong format.  I advise a complete revote from start to finish.
In that case, I don't know if I can do this but someone with standing (cough, Inks, cough) should move to have this go to the Supreme Court as HappyWarrior has a clear conflict of interest.

And what conflict is that?  Do you think I would honestly allow something to conflict with my interpretation of the law?  Frankly I am offended.

I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here, you can not count a ballot that was done in the wrong format.  I advise a complete revote from start to finish.

But the ballot was done in no format at all.  He simply put up a list.  The law never states that you have to explain what form of voting is to be used.  Is this an official ruling from you?

If so, what all does the Governor have to say in terms of instructions on how to vote?

EDIT: Also, if this is an official ruling, then the same would go for the Lt. Governor election, and as the Constitution states, preferential voting is to be used.  You would have to invalidate the Lt. Governor's election results as well.

Then so be it, hold a new Lt. Governor election if need be.  However I believe(at least this is how it worked in my term) that when a Lt. Governor is Appointed rather than elected, a simple yea or nay is all that is required.

It is, but he didn't specify how to vote.  That's the violation that you're claiming he made in the Assembly election.  I'm simply asking what law(s) you're basing that on, and whether you're giving an official ruling.

yes he did, it clearly says "aye or nay".
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2008, 10:50:13 AM »

I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here, you can not count a ballot that was done in the wrong format.  I advise a complete revote from start to finish.
In that case, I don't know if I can do this but someone with standing (cough, Inks, cough) should move to have this go to the Supreme Court as HappyWarrior has a clear conflict of interest.

And what conflict is that?  Do you think I would honestly allow something to conflict with my interpretation of the law?  Frankly I am offended.

I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here, you can not count a ballot that was done in the wrong format.  I advise a complete revote from start to finish.

But the ballot was done in no format at all.  He simply put up a list.  The law never states that you have to explain what form of voting is to be used.  Is this an official ruling from you?

If so, what all does the Governor have to say in terms of instructions on how to vote?

EDIT: Also, if this is an official ruling, then the same would go for the Lt. Governor election, and as the Constitution states, preferential voting is to be used.  You would have to invalidate the Lt. Governor's election results as well.

Then so be it, hold a new Lt. Governor election if need be.  However I believe(at least this is how it worked in my term) that when a Lt. Governor is Appointed rather than elected, a simple yea or nay is all that is required.

It is, but he didn't specify how to vote.  That's the violation that you're claiming he made in the Assembly election.  I'm simply asking what law(s) you're basing that on, and whether you're giving an official ruling.

yes he did, it clearly says "aye or nay".

Yes, but he didn't do it by citing the area in the Constitution that says how to vote in that instance, and that is what is up for debate now.  Whether or not the Mideast Election law that says that you have to post relevant "statute" regarding elections includes the Constitution.  I'm arguing that statute does not include the Constitution, but rather all laws passed by the Mideast, which does not include a law that states that you must tell the voters the method of voting.

Therefore, ben should certify the election using PR-STV and award no votes to anybody because nobody used that method of voting.
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2008, 02:47:56 PM »

If need be, I'll certify the first election, and appoint the 3 winners of the second election.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2008, 03:50:47 PM »

If need be, I'll certify the first election, and appoint the 3 winners of the second election.

That's my suggestion.  It's not that I'm trying to be an asshole, but I feel that we need to do the proper thing, not just the "easy" thing.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2008, 09:34:06 PM »

OK, so I understand Inks case about STV not being used for the Assembly, but how could it be used for the Lt. Gov race?  Would the ballot have just been:

[_] The Mikado
[_] Write-in
[_] None of the Above

Because it seems to me that it would've had the exact same effect as the Aye/Nay vote.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2008, 10:33:31 PM »

OK, so I understand Inks case about STV not being used for the Assembly, but how could it be used for the Lt. Gov race?  Would the ballot have just been:

[_] The Mikado
[_] Write-in
[_] None of the Above

Because it seems to me that it would've had the exact same effect as the Aye/Nay vote.

No, my point was not that it had to be STV, but that if the argument against the Assembly election is to be valid, that it would be because ben didn't directly quote the part of the Constitution that talks about using PR-STV, and that the Lt. Governor affirmation would be invalid because he didn't quote that part of the Constitution.

This all stems from Section 4, Clause 2 of the Mideast Election and Vote Regulations Statute (http://www.uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Election_and_Vote_Regulations_Statute).
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2008, 04:40:47 PM »

So, ben, what are you doing?
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2008, 04:47:45 PM »


I'm going to certify the original elections, declare no one elected, and then appoint the 3 winners from the re-vote.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2008, 11:06:00 PM »


I'm going to certify the original elections, declare no one elected, and then appoint the 3 winners from the re-vote.

Alright.  I drop my lawsuit.
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Franzl
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« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2008, 02:00:45 PM »


I'm going to certify the original elections, declare no one elected, and then appoint the 3 winners from the re-vote.

As governor, do you want to open a Mideast Assembly thread?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2008, 08:43:14 PM »

Recall the bastard
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2008, 08:45:05 PM »


     Why am I not surprised? Roll Eyes
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DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2008, 08:48:18 PM »

Wait...you got screwed and your going to drop your suit???
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2008, 08:49:58 PM »

The democratic process is rather important in a game based around elections and our wonderful Governer has repeatedly subverted it. Mainly due to utter incompetence rather than any malicious intent, but that's beside the point. He's a disgrace and should resign. If he don't resign, he should be forced out.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2008, 10:00:39 PM »

Wait...you got screwed and your going to drop your suit???

I got screwed because we performed this how the law dictates (other than the original ballot).  A revote would've been illegal, and we couldn't count the original votes - even I voted incorrectly, and it's the voters responsibility to know how to vote (perhaps something we should change).

I'm not happy, but I'd much rather we abide by our laws than elect me in an unlawful election.
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Brandon H
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« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2008, 11:20:27 PM »

As the Attorney General, I don't believe I have any legal authority here, but because I'm a nice guy, I'll look at this and offer some free advice.

The first voting booth simply said vote for 3 but did not specify the voting method. All voters voted as if the election were using approval voting. So this election resulted in 0 valid ballots and a 4 way tie among 4 candidates.

The Mideast Constitution only addresses vacancies and does not address the event of a tie.

1. This a flaw in the Constitution that must be fixed.

2. The governor could try holding a second election (which has happened) or appoint members (which as happened) but because this was the result of a tie and not a vacancy a member of the region would have a strong case that the governor does not have the power to do either one of these since it is not stated in the Constitution.

If you want to be safe, work on a Constitutional Amendment that would that would address what to do in the event of a tie, pass it, then implement that method.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2008, 02:53:18 AM »

As the Attorney General, I don't believe I have any legal authority here, but because I'm a nice guy, I'll look at this and offer some free advice.

The first voting booth simply said vote for 3 but did not specify the voting method. All voters voted as if the election were using approval voting. So this election resulted in 0 valid ballots and a 4 way tie among 4 candidates.

The Mideast Constitution only addresses vacancies and does not address the event of a tie.

1. This a flaw in the Constitution that must be fixed.

2. The governor could try holding a second election (which has happened) or appoint members (which as happened) but because this was the result of a tie and not a vacancy a member of the region would have a strong case that the governor does not have the power to do either one of these since it is not stated in the Constitution.

If you want to be safe, work on a Constitutional Amendment that would that would address what to do in the event of a tie, pass it, then implement that method.


Was it a tie since nobody got any votes?
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