Amendment to the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act (Law'd)

[minionofmidas]

Amendment to the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act

The following text is added to Section 3 of the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act:

5. Secession, defined as a territory or group of people declaring or threatening independence from the Atlasia.
6. Refutation of federal supremacy in law, defined as making any post or taking any actions denying the supremacy of, or serving in a regional government which denies that it is subject to, federal law in any or all regions of Atlasia, after having taken the oath of office and serving as a legal officeholder.


Sponsor: Lewis Trondheim (original sponsor: Colin, but I'm taking it over as he's gone now.)


The relevant section and act can be found here.

Please also see the debate in the Legislation Introduction Thread. Alternative versions are swirling around there, but seem not to have been formally introduced. They may be introduced as amendments to the bill here, though.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I wonder whether we should use this as an opportunity to review Criminal Law here in a wider sense.

[minionofmidas]

I wonder whether we should use this as an opportunity to review Criminal Law here in a wider sense.

I can only encourage you to make a start, then.

[DownWithTheLeft]

As one would expect, I oppose this bill.  The regions, if bullied around by the federal government (in the most extreme circumstances) deserve the right to nullify federal laws that directly target them, and secession as a last option.  This bill was done in haste when secession was being tossed around as an idea.

Why do they deserve this right?  If one region becomes all too powerful, or 4 regions gang up against one they have no other option.  For example, if a national law passes that says the Southeast must submit control of their region to the federal government, they need to be able to take a stand.  Of course, I guess at that point it wouldn't really matter anyway as the federal system would have collapsed.

The only possible situation I could see myself supporting this is if Hashemite could be tried and convicted for seceding from the Union

[Colin]

As one would expect, I oppose this bill.  The regions, if bullied around by the federal government (in the most extreme circumstances) deserve the right to nullify federal laws that directly target them, and secession as a last option.  This bill was done in haste when secession was being tossed around as an idea.

Except nullification is illegal and unconstitutional under the ruling StatesRights v. Atlasia and in order for that to be legal you would need to actually change the constitution to allow that power.

This bill was put forward because I was personally quite suprised to see that secession was not considered treasonous under the current definition within the Consildated Criminal Justice Act. I also worked on this a good amount withe Torie and myself editing and revising the bill multiple times to ensure that it was both concise and specific.

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This is just pretty idiotic and would never happen. While some of us oppose the regional system in its entirity I don't think there is anyone, besides maybe some Southeasterners like yourself, that want to try to control other regions. The regions right now work as a title factory for certain Atlasians and their friends and really as not much else. To think that the regions, some of which cannot even hold elections on time or in a valid manner, could ever have such wide ranging objectives is ludicrous.

The reality of this statement is that it's a vailed attack on the Northeast and it's supposed "influence". Really the Northeast is, if anything, one of the most diverse regions in Atlasia and it's representation, currently, is pretty scarce, one Senator, Verily. Even during the old District system the Northeast usually had two or three Senators from within it's boundaries.

Plus I have never gotten the idea of trying to represent your region and I was a regional Senator for over a year. Each region isn't all that distinct and the small distinctions are mostly due to either the left-right makeup of each region or the party structure of the region, both of which are connected.

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Well that couldn't happen. We have this thing about ex-post facto laws being illegal in a little document we like to call the Second Atlasian Constitution. Unless the RPP now wants to change that too.

I also find it odd that all these people are defending something that I, originally, helped campaign to bring back to Atlasia, the regional Senate seat. In many ways all these new people defending the regions makes me think about how I used to be quite a federalist, of course back then the regions were actually slightly useful. It's intriguing to see that the people who are most in favour of decreased federalism are the "elder statesmen".

I wonder whether we should use this as an opportunity to review Criminal Law here in a wider sense.

I can only encourage you to make a start, then.

I have to completely agree. This was just a solution to one major loophole that I saw in the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act. I'd be interested to hear a wider review of Criminal Law from you, Al.

[minionofmidas]

I also worked on this a good amount withe Torie and myself editing and revising the bill multiple times to ensure that it was both concise and specific.

Is the version as reprinted here the final version you wanted introduced?
I *think* it is, but I wasn't 100% certain you see.

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It has long been a tenet of Midwestern Expansionism that all the other regions need to be annexed to the Midwest eventually.

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And of course as constituencies, and - more importantly as it's our only genuinely federalist feature - as voting units for constitutional amendments.

[Colin]

I also worked on this a good amount withe Torie and myself editing and revising the bill multiple times to ensure that it was both concise and specific.

Is the version as reprinted here the final version you wanted introduced?
I *think* it is, but I wasn't 100% certain you see.

Yep you have the right version.

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It has long been a tenet of Midwestern Expansionism that all the other regions need to be annexed to the Midwest eventually. [/quote]

Oh you crazy Midwesterners under the government of the Great Leader Ilikeverin.

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And of course as constituencies, and - more importantly as it's our only genuinely federalist feature - as voting units for constitutional amendments.
[/quote]

Well yeah they work as those two things as well. I guess those two fall under the "not much else" catagory.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Since it has been brought to light that Hashemite could not be charged for his traitorous action, I will certainly not support this bill that aims to further discriminate against the Southeast and other glorious regions

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Might as well have a crack at this...

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These three offenses are all just different forms of the same thing, just that they are committed in slightly different ways. In other legal systems, no distinction is made between (for example) murdering someone with an axe, murdering someone with a knife or murdering someone with (say) a set of braces.

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Again, these two offenses are basically different versions of the same thing. The offense should be spamming, btw.

But the complaints above are relatively trivial. More serious concerns this...

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Firstly, it occurs to me that this "punishment" is, in some cases, not likely to be especially effective. A ban on the fantasy boards, enforced by the moderator, should probably be an option in cases of fraud. Secondly, the sentance lengths seem a littly bit on the arbitrary side; of course, they are only upper limits, but why those upper limits [qm]. I suppose you have to draw a line somewhere.

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I don't see why destroying a voting booth should be counted as any more serious than impersonation and fraud. Certainly it isn't treason.

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"Lifetime" here is rather amusing; the (median) average age here is probably less than the age I was when fantasyland started. Most of the people posting here will have 40 or 50 years of their lives left to live. This is absurd. Totally absurd.

Part II later

[minionofmidas]

No debate, no amendments.

Calling for a final vote.

[minionofmidas]

Amendment to the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act

The following text is added to Section 3 of the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act:

5. Secession, defined as a territory or group of people declaring or threatening independence from the Atlasia.
6. Refutation of federal supremacy in law, defined as making any post or taking any actions denying the supremacy of, or serving in a regional government which denies that it is subject to, federal law in any or all regions of Atlasia, after having taken the oath of office and serving as a legal officeholder.

The vote is on final passage.

Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.


Sorry Al. Write summat up as a bill is my suggestion.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Nay, just another attempt to squash the regions

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Aye

[minionofmidas]

Aye

[Bacon King]

Aye.

I definitely don't think the maximum penalty should be so drastic, however, and will support a reduction of that limit.

[Sensei]

aye

[Torie]

Aye

[CultureKing]

aye

[minionofmidas]

Vote count: Aye 6 (Al, Lewis, Bacon King, Sensei, Torie, Culture King)
Nay 1 (Dwtl)
abstain (did not vote): 3 (Verily, Meeker, Jas)

This bill has enough votes to pass. Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.

[minionofmidas]

This bill has passed. It is presented to the President for his signature.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

William F. Moderate
President

[minionofmidas]

Amendment to the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act

The following text is added to Section 3 of the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act:

5. Secession, defined as a territory or group of people declaring or threatening independence from the Atlasia.
6. Refutation of federal supremacy in law, defined as making any post or taking any actions denying the supremacy of, or serving in a regional government which denies that it is subject to, federal law in any or all regions of Atlasia, after having taken the oath of office and serving as a legal officeholder.


Sponsor: Lewis Trondheim (original sponsor: Colin, but I'm taking it over as he's gone now.)


The relevant section and act can be found here.

Please also see the debate in the Legislation Introduction Thread. Alternative versions are swirling around there, but seem not to have been formally introduced. They may be introduced as amendments to the bill here, though.

[Brandon H]

This has been wiki'd into law.
Amendment to the Consolidated Criminal Justice Act