Mideast Assembly Thread
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Author Topic: Mideast Assembly Thread  (Read 249842 times)
tmthforu94
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« Reply #2650 on: November 10, 2010, 10:22:51 PM »

Note: On the abortion bill, I'd be open to working with pro-choice members on possible amendments, such as lower the tax amount. I'm actually toying with an amount, and actually just edited it again. Wink

BTW: This is my 7500th post!
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California8429
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« Reply #2651 on: November 11, 2010, 05:32:07 PM »

Voting is now open for the final version of MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT which includes the 0.01 amendment proposed by Inks.

Voting will last for 48 hours or until every Assemblymember has voted.
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California8429
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« Reply #2652 on: November 11, 2010, 05:33:22 PM »

Aye
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
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« Reply #2653 on: November 11, 2010, 06:24:56 PM »

AYE
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benconstine
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« Reply #2654 on: November 11, 2010, 10:13:45 PM »

NAY
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Junkie
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« Reply #2655 on: November 12, 2010, 03:18:38 PM »

AYE
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officepark
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« Reply #2656 on: November 12, 2010, 09:48:52 PM »

aye ftr

As it seems we have increased activity (even with decreased Assemblymember activity) I think we should look into making seperate threads for each bill, fully debating and amending them there and then bring them to official votes in teh Mideast Assembly Thread, in order to allow us to be more efficient and move through more legislation in a more timely manner.

I introduced a similar measure in the past which didn't get anywhere. However, the votes (under my proposal) would take place in the thread for the bill in question. I think it's a better arrangement, but we'll have to debate it. Wink
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California8429
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« Reply #2657 on: November 12, 2010, 10:07:30 PM »

MIDEAST DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF AN INTOXICANT OR OTHER DRUG ACT has passed and will go to the Governor's Desk for signing.

Aye- 4
Nay- 1
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benconstine
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« Reply #2658 on: November 12, 2010, 11:54:33 PM »

Now, the abortion bill: I will absolutely not vote for a bill having a tax over $500.  Even then, I will be introducing an Amendment putting all the money made from taxes into public schools in the Mideast, just so y'all know.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #2659 on: November 12, 2010, 11:59:44 PM »

Now, the abortion bill: I will absolutely not vote for a bill having a tax over $500.  Even then, I will be introducing an Amendment putting all the money made from taxes into public schools in the Mideast, just so y'all know.
That'll be taken into consideration when we get to the abortion bill. However, we first need to discuss the firearms safety bill which was introduced by Assemblyman Junkie.
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California8429
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« Reply #2660 on: November 13, 2010, 01:35:50 PM »

Now, the abortion bill: I will absolutely not vote for a bill having a tax over $500.  Even then, I will be introducing an Amendment putting all the money made from taxes into public schools in the Mideast, just so y'all know.
That'll be taken into consideration when we get to the abortion bill. However, we first need to discuss the firearms safety bill which was introduced by Assemblyman Junkie.

or we can push forward a motion (that would not have to be signed by the Governor?) to create separate threads for each bill, and then decide where all official votes will take place.

I think keeping all vote records in this main thread make it the easiest to locate and to not lose.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #2661 on: November 13, 2010, 03:12:34 PM »

I'd say keep it either all in the same thread or all separate, and have this just as a general update thread of the agenda, etc.

But debates in one thread and votes in here just seem somewhat confusing.
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Badger
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« Reply #2662 on: November 13, 2010, 03:23:11 PM »

It's disappointed that two of our Assemblyman have yet to vote, even though messages have been sent to vote to them. Hopefully they can vote soon so we can get this bill passed quickly.



I'd like to introduce the following legislation. I have no clue on a name for it, so I'll just use something random for now.

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Whether the ultimate "Abortion tax" is $5K, $500, or $50, its still a terrible idea.

Chris Rock has a joke about not favoring gun control to control violence, but instead he'd put a $5,000 tax on every bullet. Well, imagine if gun control advocates tired proposing something like that in the Mideast--especially soon after a gun control initiative was shellacked at the polls--and you can see the flaws in this case.

Why not a tax on voting? On appointment of legal counsel to the indigent? on political advertisements? If we're going to ban one legal right to the indigent, why not all of them?
Sorry. We're not "banning" anything---we're just "taxing" it. Don't hide behind hitting everyone but the rich at exercising this legal right. Either just seek an outright ban or cope with the consensus of the region's voters.

If you really want to discourage abortions--like many of us do--try adopting some actually constructive steps like eliminate pregnancy as a preexisting condition with respect to health care, require the SCHIP to cover pregnant women and unborn children, provide free home visits by registered nurses for new mothers, provide grants for ultrasound equipment, and provide pregnancy counseling and childcare on university campuses.

FWIW, if this passes I assure you steps will be taken to bring this to a regionwide vote. Considering how the last abortion ban "tax" was greeted by the voters, I urge you, Governor, to just let sleeping dogs lie and address more pressing concerns of the region.

On the bright side, I guess its good to see in this time of fiscal crisis there's at least one tax conservatives are willing to raise. Roll Eyes
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California8429
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« Reply #2663 on: November 13, 2010, 05:05:47 PM »

It's disappointed that two of our Assemblyman have yet to vote, even though messages have been sent to vote to them. Hopefully they can vote soon so we can get this bill passed quickly.



I'd like to introduce the following legislation. I have no clue on a name for it, so I'll just use something random for now.

Quote
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Whether the ultimate "Abortion tax" is $5K, $500, or $50, its still a terrible idea.

Chris Rock has a joke about not favoring gun control to control violence, but instead he'd put a $5,000 tax on every bullet. Well, imagine if gun control advocates tired proposing something like that in the Mideast--especially soon after a gun control initiative was shellacked at the polls--and you can see the flaws in this case.

Why not a tax on voting? On appointment of legal counsel to the indigent? on political advertisements? If we're going to ban one legal right to the indigent, why not all of them?
Sorry. We're not "banning" anything---we're just "taxing" it. Don't hide behind hitting everyone but the rich at exercising this legal right. Either just seek an outright ban or cope with the consensus of the region's voters.

If you really want to discourage abortions--like many of us do--try adopting some actually constructive steps like eliminate pregnancy as a preexisting condition with respect to health care, require the SCHIP to cover pregnant women and unborn children, provide free home visits by registered nurses for new mothers, provide grants for ultrasound equipment, and provide pregnancy counseling and childcare on university campuses.

FWIW, if this passes I assure you steps will be taken to bring this to a regionwide vote. Considering how the last abortion ban "tax" was greeted by the voters, I urge you, Governor, to just let sleeping dogs lie and address more pressing concerns of the region.

On the bright side, I guess its good to see in this time of fiscal crisis there's at least one tax conservatives are willing to raise. Roll Eyes

Then I hope the fedearl government eliminates their taxes on business, health care, and education Smiley

But I do support your proposals for limiting abortions via premature pregnancies and providing young and new mothers with those abilities for the child (which will also discourage abortion of course).
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #2664 on: November 13, 2010, 11:13:50 PM »

I would like to remind everyone that this bill would only tax abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimester, minus rape, incest, and mother's life in danger. And this tax would be on the doctor performing the abortion, not the patient.

For those who currently oppose the bill, what provisions/amendments would you like to be see made that could possibly make you support the bill? As always, I'm very interested in seeking bi-partisan solutions, because I feel that both sides need to work together to solve the problem. Complaining isn't going to get anything accomplishments, but working together on this will.
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California8429
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« Reply #2665 on: November 13, 2010, 11:48:13 PM »

I would like to remind everyone that this bill would only tax abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimester, minus rape, incest, and mother's life in danger. And this tax would be on the doctor performing the abortion, not the patient.

For those who currently oppose the bill, what provisions/amendments would you like to be see made that could possibly make you support the bill? As always, I'm very interested in seeking bi-partisan solutions, because I feel that both sides need to work together to solve the problem. Complaining isn't going to get anything accomplishments, but working together on this will.

I'd say split the cost between the doctor and the one seeking the abortion. If it's on the doctor, yes, there will be less abortion doctors, but then the abortion will be done by others and unsafely. I know nothing is perfect, but I'd like to voice that concern.
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officepark
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« Reply #2666 on: November 14, 2010, 12:08:39 PM »

Hm, I'm torn on this bill, actually.

On the one hand, I'm obviously for anything that makes it harder to get an abortion, and I'd much rather tax abortions than tax, say, small businesses. On the other hand, I'm somewhat uneasy over the thought of our regional government depending on the abortion industry for funding.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #2667 on: November 14, 2010, 03:57:34 PM »

I would like to remind everyone that this bill would only tax abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimester, minus rape, incest, and mother's life in danger. And this tax would be on the doctor performing the abortion, not the patient.

For those who currently oppose the bill, what provisions/amendments would you like to be see made that could possibly make you support the bill? As always, I'm very interested in seeking bi-partisan solutions, because I feel that both sides need to work together to solve the problem. Complaining isn't going to get anything accomplishments, but working together on this will.

I'd say split the cost between the doctor and the one seeking the abortion. If it's on the doctor, yes, there will be less abortion doctors, but then the abortion will be done by others and unsafely. I know nothing is perfect, but I'd like to voice that concern.
I could understand that.
Badger, if you have a better idea to prevent abortions from occurring, you're more than welcome to write an amendment. Smiley I just had to start somewhere.
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benconstine
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« Reply #2668 on: November 14, 2010, 04:50:26 PM »

FWIW, if this passes I assure you steps will be taken to bring this to a regionwide vote. Considering how the last abortion ban "tax" was greeted by the voters, I urge you, Governor, to just let sleeping dogs lie and address more pressing concerns of the region.

Don;t worry, Badger.  If this passes in any form, I will press for a Regional vote, as I did on the last last abortion bill.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #2669 on: November 14, 2010, 05:32:19 PM »

OK.  Well people aren't really discussing how we're going to handle bills now that we have this new board, so I'm going to introduce a resolution, which takes 2 proposals.  And people can pick from the two.

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So, what do you guys think?
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California8429
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« Reply #2670 on: November 14, 2010, 06:07:14 PM »

I only have two problems.

1) We should probably state in the bill that the speaker will open each legislation thread since the bill will be introduced in this main thread anyway, in order to keep order and such.
2)
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I think this should be removed. The point of separate threads is so we can debate multiple bills at once and move much quicker. If an assemblymember is on say once every day to talk about a specific bill, this gives them the ability to comment, debate, and vote on multiple bills instead of drawing out the process.

Other than that it sounds good and I will move this to the top of the agenda. Let's hold up any further debate on the Firearms or Abortion bills in order to get this passed.

One more thing that comes to mine. For odd bills like the budget, can we include language allowing for that to be set up as a separate thread even though it hasn't been proposed persay since it takes a while to do and debate even before it can be proposed since there are so many parts to it?
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #2671 on: November 14, 2010, 06:56:58 PM »

1) I meant to include that.  The fact that that's not in there was an error.
2) We can change that.

3) as for the budget, this bill is a guideline for stuff, not necessarily a 10 Commandments of the legislative process, so some leeway with budgets is fine.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #2672 on: November 14, 2010, 07:00:52 PM »

Here's a revised version...

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Junkie
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« Reply #2673 on: November 14, 2010, 07:40:21 PM »

I think your proposal for separate threads is a very good idea.  I tried to keep track of our assembly before joining and found it hard to figure out sometimes what was going on.  I am one of those members that has certain windows of time for activity, so this idea would make it easier to get up to speed and conduct business.

As far as the abortion tax bill, I can not support it.  I had indicated earlier that a tax on items you would rather have less of is in line with my philosophy.  Cigarettes are an example. 

However, I do not believe that a tax on the abortion procedure is appropriate.  While tax hikes on smokes may induce someone to give up smoking, taxing a doctor for performing a certain medical procedure will only lead to less safe abortions, not less abortions.  Taxing the doctor will not change the mindset of those seeking an abortion. 

Even if the cost is split, as suggested, I do not feel it will lead to less abortions.  Unlike smokers, who feel the tax every time they buy a pack (an action before the smoking -- which is what you want to discourage), people looking for an abortion will not be confronted with the tax until they are looking for the abortion.  Kind of too late in the process.  Those who cannot afford the tax will just find a way, often times illegal and unsafe, to get what they seek.  Dealing with blackmarket cigs is one thing, dealing with blackmarket abortions is another.

I am more than willing to consider avenues to make abortions rarer, but trying to limit availability is not something I can support.

Oh, and sorry for not posting earlier.  Went away for the weekend.  Thought I would be able to get computer access.  Got enough time to change my fantasy football line up but got caught by the fiance just as I turned over to this and had the labtop shut on my fingers.  Kind of hurt. 
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #2674 on: November 14, 2010, 08:04:05 PM »

Fiance... how old are you?  Just curious.
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