Should this girl get her diploma?

[dead0man]

link

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'm torn.  A school does have the right (and the motivation) to censor what students and faculty can say during school functions and the girl did flat out lie.  On the other hand, it was 30 seconds!  How offended could anybody get by a 17 year old girl thanking Jesus for helping her graduate and doing it in 30 seconds? 

If I was an associate of hers I'd suggest she say sorry for lying, but for nothing else.  If I was an associate of the school admins I'd just be embarrassed.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     She should be required to apologize for lying to the principal. That done, she should be able to receive her diploma.

[dead0man]

I guess the bigger question would be:is it ok to thank a religious figure at graduation?  I say yes.  You shouldn't be allowed to preach though...but that should be true about Global Warming or PETA as much as it is with Jesus or Mohammed.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I would tend to agree with that.

[Lunar]

If she's so dumb that she refuses to work the system just a tiny bit to protect her future, then maybe.  We all gotta play by the rules, no matter how unfair, at times.  It's important for her to know this.  You're not going to be able to act inappropriately later in life in most circumstances either (Jesus doesn't belong in your valedictorian speech or your job interviews, ).

But the HUGE punishment does not fit the TINY crime [at best/worst] and the school should gave in.  Surely there is a better punishment system possible besides denying a diploma over a quick thank you to Jesus.

Dumb situation, dumb girl, dumb school.  Give her detention/community service to serve and if she serves it, she'll get her diploma.  No apology needed.  She can do the service through her church if she wants.

[John Dibble]

Yes, but I have to say she's being rather stubborn about something that seems really silly. She should just apologize, even if it's a fake one, just so she can get her diploma.

[dead0man]

Yes, but I have to say she's being rather stubborn about something that seems really silly. She should just apologize, even if it's a fake one, just so she can get her diploma.

Yeah, she had no trouble lying about it in the first place, you'd think a false apology would flow right out of her mouth as soon she was face to face with a school admin again.

[perdedor]

I see absolutely no reason for her not to receive her diploma. It's unfortunate that she chose such an accomplished time in her life to babble on about her religion...but that in no way warrants a nullification of her scholastic achievements.

[CARLHAYDEN]

dead0man presented a good summation of the facts of the case, but it seems to me that an understanding of what was really involved has not been clearly articulated.

The first key point is identifying the issue(s) involved, and there is the problem.  The counsel for the plaintiff has only sought relief on freedom of speech/religion grounds, where the court correctly noted that those rights can be limited by a school for a minor.

However, the issue of whether the school administration can withold the diploma upon the condition of the plaintiff issuing an "apology," is quite a different matter.

The rule is that graduation (and the issuance of a diploma) are subject to state law which requires that High School Graduation Requirements be set forth in writing and be accepted by the Colorado Board of Education.

In analysis of the case, it is clear that the plaintiff completed all the requirements set forth in writing prior to the speech for graduation and issuance of a diploma, and that issuance of the diploma is mandatory, not optional.

In conclusion, plaintiff's attorney sought to achieve a favorable constitutional ruling, which was highly unlikely to be granted, and ignored a sound basis in law for having the action of school administration overturned.

Wherefore the proper decision of a court would be (if the issue had been correctly presented) to order the school district to issue the diploma, and never, ever again withold a diploma based on extraneous matters.  The arrogance of the school administration in this case would merit them paying all court costs, and compensating the plaintiff for compensatory damages.  The court should also advise the school district that failure to promptly comply with the order to issue the diploma would result in a contempt citation, and substantial penalties.

BTW, she did issue an apology.

[Dr. Cynic]

Most everyone here who knows me, knows I'm not religious.

However, I am an ardent supporter of free speech. This is a student presenting her own view, and not the view of the school. She should be allowed to do so, so long as she's not forcing her view on anyone else.

She should apologize for presenting a false speech to her principal, but other than that, I think she should get her diploma.

[Jake]

The question in my eyes is whether she completed the requirements set forth by the state for earning her diploma. If yes, give her the diploma. If no, notify her of the uncompleted standards. I can't believe that a school district can withhold a diploma for disciplinary reasons.

In other words, I agree with Carl.

[Sensei]

I see absolutely no reason for her not to receive her diploma. It's unfortunate that she chose such an accomplished time in her life to babble on about her religion...but that in no way warrants a nullification of her scholastic achievements.

[Хahar 🤔]

Idiot.

[Smid]

Most everyone here who knows me, knows I'm not religious.

However, I am an ardent supporter of free speech. This is a student presenting her own view, and not the view of the school. She should be allowed to do so, so long as she's not forcing her view on anyone else.

She should apologize for presenting a false speech to her principal, but other than that, I think she should get her diploma.

She lied to her principal, which was the wrong thing for her to do and I think she morally should apologise to the principal for doing that. So long as she obeyed the law, I have no problem with her choosing to exercise her freedom of speech (by this I mean, so long as she doesn't say anything that is actually illegal - such as something that might fall under any hate-speech legislation you might have).

[The Mikado]

They took away her diploma for that?

As my namesake, The Mikado, always said, "Let the punishment fit the crime."

[J. J.]

She should, if she wishes, apologize for lying.  If not, she should be given an in school suspension.  After that, hand her the diploma.

If she's so dumb that she refuses to work the system just a tiny bit to protect her future, then maybe.  We all gotta play by the rules, no matter how unfair, at times.  It's important for her to know this.  You're not going to be able to act inappropriately later in life in most circumstances either (Jesus doesn't belong in your valedictorian speech or your job interviews, ).

She's claiming the rule is wrong and violating not just an "unjust" rule, but an illegal one.  I wonder if you have taken the same position if this was a lunch counter at Woolworth's in 1962?

[dead0man]

She should, if she wishes, apologize for lying.  If not, she should be given an in school suspension.  After that, hand her the diploma.

She "graduated" more than 2 years ago.

[MasterJedi]

Of course she should get her diploma.

[J. J.]

She should, if she wishes, apologize for lying.  If not, she should be given an in school suspension.  After that, hand her the diploma.

She "graduated" more than 2 years ago.

As a condition of her getting the diploma, she goes back and does the suspension (even if 20 years later).

[Person Man]

     She should be required to apologize for lying to the principal. That done, she should be able to receive her diploma.

[Earth]

This shouldn't have stopped her from getting her diploma.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Of course she should get her diploma.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I think she should have received her diploma anyway, but she still should have apologized to the principal for lying to him.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

Yes free speech is important. And since America is so big on school why keep her from getting it? that is crazy,it makes me mad. If you belief something fine. But it does cross the line when you pressure someone to belief the same thing.