Why Don't Canadian Conservatives Support Quebec Secession?
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  Why Don't Canadian Conservatives Support Quebec Secession?
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Author Topic: Why Don't Canadian Conservatives Support Quebec Secession?  (Read 1801 times)
Bono
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« on: October 15, 2008, 08:02:58 AM »

http://volokh.com/posts/1224069596.shtm

Why Don't Canadian Conservatives Support Quebec Secession?

Yesterday's Canadian election gives me an opportunity to explore what to me seems an interesting mystery about Canadian politics: Why don't Canadian Conservatives support Quebec secession?

Canadian Conservatives prefer relatively pro-market policies. Quebec is the most statist province in the country and its political influence drives Canada's economic policies well to the left of where they would be in a separate anglophone Canada. Canadian Conservatives hate paying for federal government subsidies to Quebec (Quebec is a major net recipient of transfer payments from the federal government). Obviously, there would be no such subsidies if Quebec were an independent nation. In the long run, secession might even lead to relatively more market-oriented policies within Quebec itself, since an independent Quebec government could no longer rely on Ottawa transfer payments to finance its statism. Finally, Quebec secession would be a major political boon for the Conservative Party. In the recent election, the Conservatives won 133 of 233 parliament seats in the anglophone provinces, but only 10 of 75 in Quebec. The Tories won't necessarily do this well in the "rest of Canada" every time; but their odds of getting a majority would be greatly improved if Quebec were to secede.

Given the above realities, if I were a Canadian Conservative I would do all I could to help the Parti Quebecois (the secessionist party which wins most of the Quebec vote) to achieve their goal of establishing an independent nation. "Vive le Quebec libre" would be my slogan too.

Actually, I think I know why most Canadian Conservatives in the real world are opposed to Quebec secession. Francophone Quebec nationalists and the Anglophone western Canadians who form the base of the Conservative Party are bitter political enemies. No doubt, many Conservatives can't stand the thought of giving their traditional rivals what they most want. That's an understandable attitude, even if an irrational one. There's plenty of similar (and worse) irrationality in American politics too. But as a somewhat detached outsider, I would respectfully suggest to Canada's Conservatives that giving your adversaries what they want is sometimes the best way to achieve your own goals.

Of course, I'm not an expert on Canadian politics, so it's possible that there's something I'm missing here. The above analysis is based on my general expertise on federal systems combined with a necessarily limited knowledge of Canada. Hopefully, Canadian readers and others more expert than I am will enlighten me as to what I'm missing.

UPDATE: Based on the comments, it's worth pointing out that the Conservatives (like the other major Canadian parties) already accept the idea that Quebec and other provinces have a right to secede. Had any of several previous Quebec referenda on independence passed, the other provinces and the federal government would have let Quebec go and would certainly not have used force to compel it to stay. The debate in Canada is not over the right to secede (as it was in the US in 1861), but merely over whether it would be desirable for Quebec to exercise that right.

Thus, arguments to the effect that the principle of secession is inherently dangerous because any province could use the threat of secession as leverage probably don't explain Conservative opposition to Quebec independence. Canadians (at least most of them) have already accepted that principle.

UPDATE #2: Canadian-based political scientist Jacob Levy makes a good point in the comments:

    Being a "federalist" party in the Canadian sense (that is, anti-secessionist) is the sine qua non for support in English Canada. There might be some number of western voters who would cheer Quebec's departure and be happy that the ideological median in their new country had moved a long way right. But the Conservatives would sacrifice something close to all their votes in Ontario (the largest province)-- many of whom have no identity-commitment to being Conservative but have a massive investment in the idea of Canada....

    Ontario is far from solidly conservative or culturally conservative, and it would electorally cut off at the knees any party that abandoned federalism. Whatever Conservative leaders might wish in their hearts, it's a political non-starter.

I think Jacob is right that openly supporting Quebec secession would be politically dangerous for the Conservatives (or any majority-anglophone party). That may indeed sufficiently explain why they don't do it. At the same time, it remains the case that secession would greatly facilitate the achievement of conservative policy objectives in the long run. So maybe the right strategy for Conservatives would be to increase the likelihood of Quebec secession indirectly by opposing Quebec demands for increased subsidies and other concessions from the central government, thereby strengthening the PQ by reinforcing their argument that Francophones can never get what they want within Canada. To some extent, of course, that is what the Tories are already doing. Whether they could get away with doing it to a greater extent is difficult for me to judge. Which just goes to show that professional politicians are usually better judges of political strategy than armchair commentators.
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Smid
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2008, 08:12:41 AM »

I've argued this point with my fiancee previously - and I'd think she'd be more in favour because she's just about Bloc Albertois, but she doesn't want to see her country broken up. She puts it down to patriotism. I can respect that, even though Quebec Secession would clearly benefit the Tories.
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Platypus
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2008, 10:18:16 AM »

If it were my exclusive decision to either a) maintain the Australian commonwealth; b) force Queensland out; or c)Independence for Victoria, I'd choose option c) Wink

Seriously though, i'd keep Queensland. If for no other reason than that it has a rainforest or two and lots of minerals.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2008, 10:54:01 AM »

I've argued this point with my fiancee previously - and I'd think she'd be more in favour because she's just about Bloc Albertois, but she doesn't want to see her country broken up. She puts it down to patriotism. I can respect that, even though Quebec Secession would clearly benefit the Tories.
Hardly. It would destroy their whole raison d'etre. [/hyperbole, but there's some truth to it]
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The Man From G.O.P.
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2008, 12:22:56 PM »

I've noticed this phenomenon.... Libertarian types being unable to comprehend patriotism when it runs perpendicular to their political thought, especially when it comes to territory. Sad and pretty foolish.
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Verily
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2008, 12:38:45 PM »

I've noticed this phenomenon.... Libertarian types being unable to comprehend patriotism when it runs perpendicular to their political thought, especially when it comes to territory. Sad and pretty foolish.

You're right, patriotism is sad and pretty foolish.
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The Man From G.O.P.
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 02:04:55 PM »

I've noticed this phenomenon.... Libertarian types being unable to comprehend patriotism when it runs perpendicular to their political thought, especially when it comes to territory. Sad and pretty foolish.

You're right, patriotism is sad and pretty foolish.

I hope you're joking.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 03:12:55 PM »

I've noticed this phenomenon.... Libertarian types being unable to comprehend patriotism when it runs perpendicular to their political thought, especially when it comes to territory. Sad and pretty foolish.

You're right, patriotism is sad and pretty foolish.

I hope you're joking.

He's not. You'd be surprised at how many people think this. Not too many people in Canada though, which is an odd thing. Most people here who aren't patriotic are just indifferent, it has nothing to do with them thinking it is "sad and foolish".

I guess Verily would say we're an irrational people.

I won't get into debating the merits of patriotism though now.
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Robespierre's Jaw
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 03:53:06 PM »

Seriously though, i'd keep Queensland. If for no other reason than that it has a rainforest or two and lots of minerals.

But Hugh think of the Queensland Bogans! They're worse than our kind in Victoria, I can assure you of that. Not to mention ours can be even worse as have the Collingwood Football Club on their side.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 10:33:33 PM »

If Quebec became independent, USA hockey would become completely irrelevant.
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