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Author Topic: Who will you vote for in '12?  (Read 11009 times)
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2008, 12:53:06 am »
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If the GOP moves populist in the next few years, I might be an Independent or Democrat by 2012. I seriously hope they don't take that route. But it will depend on how Obama does as President and who the GOP nominates. I won't want to vote for Huckabee or Palin. I hope that the party moves back towards their small government, low spending roots. I'll evaluate my options when the time comes. I know I said I'd not vote for Romney this year, but I'd be open to him in 2012 because he probably could've fixed the economy.
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2008, 03:33:34 pm »
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If the GOP moves populist in the next few years, I might be an Independent or Democrat by 2012. I seriously hope they don't take that route. But it will depend on how Obama does as President and who the GOP nominates. I won't want to vote for Huckabee or Palin. I hope that the party moves back towards their small government, low spending roots. I'll evaluate my options when the time comes. I know I said I'd not vote for Romney this year, but I'd be open to him in 2012 because he probably could've fixed the economy.

If Huckabee/Palin/Jindal is the nominee in 2012, you know I'd likely be happy. But why would you leave a Populist GOP?
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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2008, 03:38:05 pm »

If the GOP moves populist in the next few years, I might be an Independent or Democrat by 2012. I seriously hope they don't take that route. But it will depend on how Obama does as President and who the GOP nominates. I won't want to vote for Huckabee or Palin. I hope that the party moves back towards their small government, low spending roots. I'll evaluate my options when the time comes. I know I said I'd not vote for Romney this year, but I'd be open to him in 2012 because he probably could've fixed the economy.

If Huckabee/Palin/Jindal is the nominee in 2012, you know I'd likely be happy. But why would you leave a Populist GOP?

Look at his political matrix score.
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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2008, 03:43:03 pm »
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If the GOP moves populist in the next few years, I might be an Independent or Democrat by 2012. I seriously hope they don't take that route. But it will depend on how Obama does as President and who the GOP nominates. I won't want to vote for Huckabee or Palin. I hope that the party moves back towards their small government, low spending roots. I'll evaluate my options when the time comes. I know I said I'd not vote for Romney this year, but I'd be open to him in 2012 because he probably could've fixed the economy.

If Huckabee/Palin/Jindal is the nominee in 2012, you know I'd likely be happy. But why would you leave a Populist GOP?

Look at his political matrix score.
Oh wait, a minute, I forgot he was Libertarian.
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« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2008, 03:54:59 pm »
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If the GOP moves populist in the next few years, I might be an Independent or Democrat by 2012. I seriously hope they don't take that route. But it will depend on how Obama does as President and who the GOP nominates. I won't want to vote for Huckabee or Palin. I hope that the party moves back towards their small government, low spending roots. I'll evaluate my options when the time comes. I know I said I'd not vote for Romney this year, but I'd be open to him in 2012 because he probably could've fixed the economy.

If Huckabee/Palin/Jindal is the nominee in 2012, you know I'd likely be happy. But why would you leave a Populist GOP?

I really don't want to leave the GOP because I really hate Democrats. if they became Populist, my whole reason for being one would be gone. I'm a staunch fiscal conservative that believes in low taxes, low spending and less government except in extreme cases (I supported the bailout). I'm pro-choice, pro-immigration, and pro-civil unions, semi-pro gun control, so I don't agree with the GOP 100% on social issues.

I just think it would be a disaster if the GOP debate just another big government party. Their reason for existing would disappear. That being said, I don't know what party I'd join if the GOP abandoned their libertarian government policies. I hate the Democrat party so much that I doubt I could ever join them. Too many nut cases in the party for me to want to be a part of it.
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« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2008, 03:56:53 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.
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« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2008, 04:08:25 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.

The populists are more of the social conservatives who take them very seriously. I don't hate the populists, I just hope we don't vote in that direction and destroy our small government agenda. Bush has done enough to ruin that during his terms.
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« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2008, 04:13:55 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.

The populists are more of the social conservatives who take them very seriously. I don't hate the populists, I just hope we don't vote in that direction and destroy our small government agenda. Bush has done enough to ruin that during his terms.

I don't think Bush is Populist myself, he is really just stupid.
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« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2008, 04:22:00 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.

The populists are more of the social conservatives who take them very seriously. I don't hate the populists, I just hope we don't vote in that direction and destroy our small government agenda. Bush has done enough to ruin that during his terms.

I don't think Bush is Populist myself, he is really just stupid.

He's a big government guy, but he cut taxes and then increased spending. So he isn't technically a populist, but he spends like one.
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« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2008, 04:26:54 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.

The populists are more of the social conservatives who take them very seriously. I don't hate the populists, I just hope we don't vote in that direction and destroy our small government agenda. Bush has done enough to ruin that during his terms.

I don't think Bush is Populist myself, he is really just stupid.

He's a big government guy, but he cut taxes and then increased spending. So he isn't technically a populist, but he spends like one.

Bush is really just a confused monkey who should've never been President,
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« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2008, 04:35:04 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.

The populists are more of the social conservatives who take them very seriously. I don't hate the populists, I just hope we don't vote in that direction and destroy our small government agenda. Bush has done enough to ruin that during his terms.

I don't think Bush is Populist myself, he is really just stupid.

He's a big government guy, but he cut taxes and then increased spending. So he isn't technically a populist, but he spends like one.

Bush is really just a confused monkey who should've never been President,

That's a bit harsh for me. Bush was the right man to have in the White House for the times during 9/11, but his second term has been very ineffective since the immigration debunkle.
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« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2008, 04:37:56 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.

The populists are more of the social conservatives who take them very seriously. I don't hate the populists, I just hope we don't vote in that direction and destroy our small government agenda. Bush has done enough to ruin that during his terms.

I don't think Bush is Populist myself, he is really just stupid.

He's a big government guy, but he cut taxes and then increased spending. So he isn't technically a populist, but he spends like one.

Bush is really just a confused monkey who should've never been President,

That's a bit harsh for me. Bush was the right man to have in the White House for the times during 9/11, but his second term has been very ineffective since the immigration debunkle.

Sorry if I was too mean, I was trying to be polite as possible. I think Bush was right on 9/11 and Terrorism, but that is about it.
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« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2008, 04:45:37 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.

The populists are more of the social conservatives who take them very seriously. I don't hate the populists, I just hope we don't vote in that direction and destroy our small government agenda. Bush has done enough to ruin that during his terms.

I don't think Bush is Populist myself, he is really just stupid.

He's a big government guy, but he cut taxes and then increased spending. So he isn't technically a populist, but he spends like one.

Bush is really just a confused monkey who should've never been President,

That's a bit harsh for me. Bush was the right man to have in the White House for the times during 9/11, but his second term has been very ineffective since the immigration debunkle.

Sorry if I was too mean, I was trying to be polite as possible. I think Bush was right on 9/11 and Terrorism, but that is about it.

He's been unfairly hurt by a lot of things outside of his control, including the mess in the economy. That was building up for some time and the Democrats were the main players in enabling the poor to buy those homes. A lot of these problems just collapsed while Bush was in office.
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« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2008, 04:47:37 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.

The populists are more of the social conservatives who take them very seriously. I don't hate the populists, I just hope we don't vote in that direction and destroy our small government agenda. Bush has done enough to ruin that during his terms.

I don't think Bush is Populist myself, he is really just stupid.

He's a big government guy, but he cut taxes and then increased spending. So he isn't technically a populist, but he spends like one.

Bush is really just a confused monkey who should've never been President,

That's a bit harsh for me. Bush was the right man to have in the White House for the times during 9/11, but his second term has been very ineffective since the immigration debunkle.

Sorry if I was too mean, I was trying to be polite as possible. I think Bush was right on 9/11 and Terrorism, but that is about it.

He's been unfairly hurt by a lot of things outside of his control, including the mess in the economy. That was building up for some time and the Democrats were the main players in enabling the poor to buy those homes. A lot of these problems just collapsed while Bush was in office.

Yeah, but Bush was too weak to defend himself in my opinion. And if Obama wins, I am blaming it all on Bush.
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« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2008, 04:50:31 pm »
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Yeah, there is a c;ash of Libertarians and Populists in the GOP right now.

The populists are more of the social conservatives who take them very seriously. I don't hate the populists, I just hope we don't vote in that direction and destroy our small government agenda. Bush has done enough to ruin that during his terms.

I don't think Bush is Populist myself, he is really just stupid.

He's a big government guy, but he cut taxes and then increased spending. So he isn't technically a populist, but he spends like one.

Bush is really just a confused monkey who should've never been President,

That's a bit harsh for me. Bush was the right man to have in the White House for the times during 9/11, but his second term has been very ineffective since the immigration debunkle.

Sorry if I was too mean, I was trying to be polite as possible. I think Bush was right on 9/11 and Terrorism, but that is about it.

He's been unfairly hurt by a lot of things outside of his control, including the mess in the economy. That was building up for some time and the Democrats were the main players in enabling the poor to buy those homes. A lot of these problems just collapsed while Bush was in office.

Yeah, but Bush was too weak to defend himself in my opinion. And if Obama wins, I am blaming it all on Bush.

Well, I think he'll just be glad to be out of there so he can't get blamed for all the problems we have today. He has always been vilified in the media ever since he took office, except for the few weeks following 9/11. It's hard to defend himself when the mainstream media has worked for 8 years to create this culture of hatred of Bush. So if Obama wins, it will be mostly because of Bush, the economy, and the fact that McCain didn't have a decent campaign team to attack Obama on the issues and defend himself in the process.
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« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2008, 04:51:45 pm »
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Yeah, I will never like Bush, but at the same time I feel kinda sorry for him. He has just become so pitiful.
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« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2008, 06:53:19 pm »
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Yeah, I will never like Bush, but at the same time I feel kinda sorry for him. He has just become so pitiful.

I think you're letting outside opinions influence your own opinions.  He is a perfect match for your general philosophy.  Not to mention it's fairly ridiculous to assert that anyone capable of successfully running the United States is stupid.

And I'd also argue it's fairly ridiculous to blame Bush for the economy.  If we're going to take that leap into the ridiculous, we should blame Clinton and Carter for pressuring banks into giving sup-prime loans through the Community Reinvestment Act and its subsequent strengthening.

Bush is not the same as my philosophy, straight up. He is a Rockefeller neocon trying to be a Southern Populist. He has the New Englander Wall Street tinge on him.
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« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2008, 07:00:54 pm »
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Bush is not the same as my philosophy, straight up. He is a Rockefeller neocon trying to be a Southern Populist. He has the New Englander Wall Street tinge on him.

Bush has absolutely nothing in common with any sort of Rockefeller Republicans, not to mention Rockefeller was far from a neocon himself.  He is far-right on social issues and to the left on economic issues.  How is that any different than your philosophy?  A New England Republican would balance, shrink, and streamline the government, not bloat it to astronomical proportions while ignoring waste and blindly lowering taxes like Bush.  Bush has also done nothing to provide evidence of any sort of affinity for Wall Street.  I'm curious; What policies in particular are you building this makeshift combination of a "Rockefeller neocon" on?

If he was economically left, would the Chinese be spoonfed by him? Would he have balanced the budget? Would we have a near-Socialist almost president? No.

Saying Bush is Populist pisses me off big time.
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« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2008, 07:20:43 pm »
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Bush is not the same as my philosophy, straight up. He is a Rockefeller neocon trying to be a Southern Populist. He has the New Englander Wall Street tinge on him.

Bush has absolutely nothing in common with any sort of Rockefeller Republicans, not to mention Rockefeller was far from a neocon himself.  He is far-right on social issues and to the left on economic issues.  How is that any different than your philosophy?  A New England Republican would balance, shrink, and streamline the government, not bloat it to astronomical proportions while ignoring waste and blindly lowering taxes like Bush.  Bush has also done nothing to provide evidence of any sort of affinity for Wall Street.  I'm curious; What policies in particular are you building this makeshift combination of a "Rockefeller neocon" on?

If he was economically left, would the Chinese be spoonfed by him? Would he have balanced the budget? Would we have a near-Socialist almost president? No.

Saying Bush is Populist pisses me off big time.

But it's basically true. There's nothing libertarian about Bush except he cut taxes. The rest is basically just like your philosophy.
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« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2008, 07:23:21 pm »
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Bush is not the same as my philosophy, straight up. He is a Rockefeller neocon trying to be a Southern Populist. He has the New Englander Wall Street tinge on him.

Bush has absolutely nothing in common with any sort of Rockefeller Republicans, not to mention Rockefeller was far from a neocon himself.  He is far-right on social issues and to the left on economic issues.  How is that any different than your philosophy?  A New England Republican would balance, shrink, and streamline the government, not bloat it to astronomical proportions while ignoring waste and blindly lowering taxes like Bush.  Bush has also done nothing to provide evidence of any sort of affinity for Wall Street.  I'm curious; What policies in particular are you building this makeshift combination of a "Rockefeller neocon" on?

If he was economically left, would the Chinese be spoonfed by him? Would he have balanced the budget? Would we have a near-Socialist almost president? No.

Saying Bush is Populist pisses me off big time.

But it's basically true. There's nothing libertarian about Bush except he cut taxes. The rest is basically just like your philosophy.

I still think he is Fiscally Conservative, he is not Populist. I am tired of Libertarian Propaganda.
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« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2008, 07:26:20 pm »
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Populist or not, I still hate Bush.

I don't see how he can be economically left, when Wall Street gets what they want (which is what Bush has done.)

Are you scared that the GOP will kick Libertarians out or something, depsite that is what is going to happen?
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« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2008, 09:34:13 pm »
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Populist or not, I still hate Bush.

I don't see how he can be economically left, when Wall Street gets what they want (which is what Bush has done.)

Are you scared that the GOP will kick Libertarians out or something, depsite that is what is going to happen?

I am afraid of what would happen if the GOP took a populist turn. We'd certainly lose a large base of fiscal conservatives which would really ruin our party. The GOP would basically be Democrats with social conservative views. If that happened, another third party would form and probably replace the GOP way into the future. The fiscal conservatives aren't going away. There will always be a large faction of us. We are what America stands for. Less government, low spending, low taxes. Personal responsibility. That philosophy isn't dying out.
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« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2008, 11:51:30 pm »
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I would like to Vote for Jim Webb in 2012 so iam hoping Obama loses this election.
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« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2008, 03:52:43 am »
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Just because "populism" in the political matrix term means social conservative/fiscal liberal doesn't mean Bush is one just because he spends a lot.  Bush spends liberally, but not in what a populist would (ideally) spend in.  He's into deregulation of schools and the health system, not to mention privatizing social security.  A big deficit spender is by no means a populist, at least not necessarily.  Don't Republican presidents tend to spend and not slash enough programs to cover it anyways?
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alan keyes, mike gravel, cynthia mckinney, ralph nader... such a mess.
maybe it would be better if we just had two big political parties that represent wide swaths of ideology run against each other instead of all these warring parties. if we only had to deal with two parties a winner would have already come out ahead and had a chance to stabilize the financial markets and to prepare to deal with iraq.
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« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2008, 12:02:16 pm »
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Just because "populism" in the political matrix term means social conservative/fiscal liberal doesn't mean Bush is one just because he spends a lot.  Bush spends liberally, but not in what a populist would (ideally) spend in.  He's into deregulation of schools and the health system, not to mention privatizing social security.  A big deficit spender is by no means a populist, at least not necessarily.  Don't Republican presidents tend to spend and not slash enough programs to cover it anyways?

Thank you for helping me clear it up.
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