Gallup's track record (user search)
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Author Topic: Gallup's track record  (Read 27883 times)
The Vorlon
Vorlon
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Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« on: September 17, 2004, 10:43:30 AM »
« edited: September 17, 2004, 10:50:21 AM by The Vorlon »

Oh PLEEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEE....

Let's start attacking Gallup now Smiley

Facts:

2000 Race

Final Gallup Poll

Bush 48
Kerry 46
Nader 4

Actual Result:

Bush 47.87%
Kerry 48.38
Nader 2.73%

Error:

Bush 0.13%
Gore 2.38%
Nader 1.27%

Wow - Average Candidate error was 1.28% - you're right a really sloppy outfit - I would throw this poll out...

So how did they do in 2002 you may ask...?

Well, according to an anaylsis done by the Natioinal Council on Public Polling, of all the firms surveyed, the firm with the lowest average error was, you guessed it... Gallup...

http://www.ncpp.org/2002SenGovPoll/2002ElectionPolls.html

Ok...so Gallup go lucky in 2000 and 2002...

Well... going back to 1936...

The record of accuracy achieved by Gallup in these "horse-race" or "head-to head" measurements is unsurpassed. For example, in the sixteen presidential elections since 1936, the deviation between Gallup's final pre-election survey figures and the actual election results is 2.2% and, since 1960, only 1.5%.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=1210

Gallup has been polling for 70 years - yes you can pick on one poll here and there - in 70 years you get a few bad polls.

But year in year out, poll after poll after poll, Gallup can go toe to toe and come out looking just fine Wink

That being said, I will post AGAIN for those of you who missed it the 1st, 2nd, 9th, and 43rd times I posted it...

Point #1

The Gallup poll is designed to do one thing, and one thing only.... Predict the outcome of an election when you are very close to the actual election.

The Gallup likely voter screen is very sensitive to changes in voter motivation and interest and hence when you are many weeks out produces large and artificial swings in the race.

Point #2

Any poll taken right now is, by definition "wrong" in the Gallup likely voter screen is based on if the election were held tomorrow - the election is NOT tomorrow Wink

Point #3

Gallup has Bush +8 among RVs
Gallup has Bush +13 among LVs

This 5% gap is historically a bit large, but simply represents that GOP supportes are really cranked right now.  Their candidate is up and doing well.  DanRatherBiasedMemoGate has the GOP faithfull all worked up, while Dem supporters are a bit depressed for all the same reasons. - Of course more GOP supportes are interested and thus "likely" right now.

Will this huge intensity gap between the GOP and Dems last until election day..?

Probably not.

But this poll is a snapshot of Today, NOT a prediction of Tomorrow.

and TODAY the GOP is more energized Wink

What does Gallup predict for Nov 2nd..?

Lets wait for their Nov 1st Poll to find out Smiley

Point #4

Gallup uses the "purest" of all methodologoes in the sense that they weight very little and place vey few "boundry conditions" on their sample.

The benefit of this is that when the electorate truly actually does change, Gallup will catch it when many other pollsters will throw the proverbial baby out with the methodological bathwater by weighting changes away.

In 2002 when most pundits were "stunned" (To use Zogby's words) that the GOP gained in both the House and the SEnate, Gallup predicted it perfectly - The final Gallup "Generic" congressional ballot had the GOP up 4% (actual was 5%) while Zogby, ABC, etc all had the Dems up 4 or 5

In 1994 when the GOP wave took control of the House and Senate, everybody was stunned - except Gallup who also had it right.  (Mason Dixon also had an amazing year in 1994 as well to be fair)

The price Gallup pays for this is they get a bit more pure random noise in their results than other pollsters.

It's not a "flaw" it's a choice.

Bottom line

Is Bush up 13%..?

I personally don't think so.

I think he has a "real" lead of 4% or so, plus some "froth" due to the GOP being rather cranked up right now.

For the record, I also expect that we will see a lot of national polls in the next few days where Bush is up high single digits.

It likely will not last, but that's where the race is now Wink

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The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2004, 12:03:19 PM »


Fine.
But just few days earlier to that poll the gap was 13%.



Point #1

The Gallup poll is designed to do one thing, and one thing only.... Predict the outcome of an election when you are very close to the actual election.

The Gallup likely voter screen is very sensitive to changes in voter motivation and interest and hence when you are many weeks out produces large and artificial swings in the race.

Bottom line

Is Bush up 13%..?

I personally don't think so.

I think he has a "real" lead of 4% or so, plus some "froth" due to the GOP being rather cranked up right now.


In 2000, the Bush DUI hit a few dayes before the vote, this naturally scraed a lot of GOPers, and pumped up a lot of Dems.

Hence the big change in the Gallup likely voter screen.

In plain english... again....

The Gallup likely voter screen is very sensitive to changes in voter motivation and interest and hence when you are many weeks out produces large and artificial swings in the race.

large and artificial swings in the race.

large and artificial swings in the race.

large and artificial swings in the race.

large and artificial swings in the race.

large and artificial swings in the race.

English is my second language, so perhaps I am not expressing this idea correctly, I sometimes have difficulty communicating conplex ideas...

Is some part of the phrase:

large and artificial swings in the race.

unclear ?

I am open to an alternate wording Wink



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The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2004, 12:24:33 PM »

So- Gallup, along with any other company who had Bush ahead, got the election result wrong.

I guess it depends what you define as "wrong"

When I see a poll that says:

Bush 48
Gore 46

I go in my head..

"Race is well within the margin of error - we don't really know who is ahead, might be a late  night watching the returns"

A fundemenatlly correct discription of the race...

If some pollster calls a race say

Candidate X: 50
Candidate Y: 48

and it turns out to be

Candidate X: 49
Candidate Y: 50

I personally think the pollster did a heck of a good job.

Wink

And I am not biased even a tiny bit towards the hard working, underpaid (ok that part is a lie) abused, overworked, under appreciated, polsters of the world Wink

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The Vorlon
Vorlon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,660


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -4.21

« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2004, 12:47:43 PM »

Why don't everyone calm down and just say Gallup 'Laided an Egg'.......It Happens.....

Lets review the last week:
9/17 - Economist - Bush +1
9/16 - Pew - Bush +1
9/15 - Harris - Kerry +1
9/14 - Dem Corp - Bush +1
9/12 - IBD/Tipp/CSM - TIE
9/9   - Dem Corps - Bush +3
9/9   - Zogby - Bush +2
9/9   - Fox/OD - Bush +2

Gallup at Bush +13 or even half that is just a joke.....

You presented a somewhat truncated list of polls:

Additions to list:

Rasmussen - Bush +4
ICR - Bush +8
New Democratic Network (D) Bush +4

FWIW

ABC News reports that the "spin" memos from the Dems say Bush is up 2%, while the GOP 'spin" memos say Bush is up 5%

I have posted qite a few times I think Bush is up 4ish % "real" and maybe a bit extra for some excitement froth.

The Gallup Likely voter model is behaving like, well, the Gallup Likely voter model...  it generates huge and artificial swings.

BTW, the two Pew Samples (Bush +16, Bush +1) actually do make sense.

The first Pew "wave" was +5 to the GOP side in partisan ID, while the second "wave" was waaaay to the Dem side - thisparty ID swing explains just about all the difference between the two "waves"

If you combine both samples from Pew, and reweight to 39/35/26 it comes out at Bush +3, which I think is darn close to the truth.
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