Israel 2009
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Author Topic: Israel 2009  (Read 43268 times)
danny
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« Reply #250 on: February 12, 2009, 02:51:17 PM »

The military votes were counted today, no change in seats.
Final results:
Kadima: 758,032
Likud 729,054
Yisrael Beitenu: 394,577
Labor: 334,900
Shas: 286,300
United Torah Judaism: 147,954
UAL: 113,954
National Union: 112,570
Hadash: 112,130
Meretz: 99,611
Jewish Home: 96,765
Balad:83,739
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #251 on: February 12, 2009, 03:53:57 PM »

Shas acting like their typical self, before the election yhey said voting for Liberman strengthens the devil and the day after the elections they say their willing to sit with them in the same coalition.

lol
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Yamor
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« Reply #252 on: February 12, 2009, 06:16:24 PM »

I wouldn't criticise Shas just yet. Of course they won't mind sitting with Lieberman if they get him to back down from his policies of civil marriage etc. After all, that was why they were so against him in the campaign. If they don't get him to back down, I don't believe they'll join a coalition with him.
Anothe point to remember is that although Shas are definitely against his policies, if they see that they can't stop it, then it makes perfect sense for them to compromise and get what they can.
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danny
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« Reply #253 on: February 13, 2009, 05:32:47 AM »

Anyone have the 2006 results in the kibbutzim?

31.1 Kadima
30.6 Labor
This shows the extent of shift of left wing voters to Kadima in order to beat Likud.
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danny
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« Reply #254 on: February 14, 2009, 02:44:29 PM »

It seems Baraks days as head of Labor are numbered, Amir Peretz has already announced he's challenging for leadership and Barak will probably lose regardless of who challenges (of course, as this is Israel, he will probably be back sometime).
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M
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« Reply #255 on: February 14, 2009, 03:27:53 PM »

It seems Baraks days as head of Labor are numbered, Amir Peretz has already announced he's challenging for leadership and Barak will probably lose regardless of who challenges (of course, as this is Israel, he will probably be back sometime).

He may well lose. But not to Peretz.
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Yamor
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« Reply #256 on: February 15, 2009, 07:27:41 PM »

It's going to be interesting next Tuesday, when Olmert ceases to be an MK. It'll be the first time the PM hasn't been one. There are actually legal experts saying he can't even continue to be caretaker PM from then.
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Ogre Mage
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« Reply #257 on: February 15, 2009, 07:46:31 PM »

I find the state of Israeli politics depressing.  What happened to the moderate left?!  With both Israel and Palestine moving toward their most militant political leaders, the prospect of peace is even more remote than before.
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Yamor
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« Reply #258 on: February 19, 2009, 08:31:12 AM »

Looking more certain that Peres will have to ask Bibi to form the government. Lieberman today met with the president, and recommended he ask Bibi to form the government on condition he forms a broad coalition, preferably including all three parties (Kadima, Likud, Yisrael Beiteinu).
Kadima however released a statement that they'd prefer to sit in opposition rather then join a Likud-led government.
In other news, a high-ranked Kadima guy said he cannot see Kadima being in any sort of coalition with Shas.
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Yamor
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« Reply #259 on: February 20, 2009, 06:42:47 AM »

Peres is meeting Bibi in half an hour (2:15 IST) to give him the mandate to form the government.
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Harry Hayfield
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« Reply #260 on: February 20, 2009, 09:46:55 AM »

I don't know why but judging from the BBC coverage, I got the impression that part of the coalition talks might include a rejection of the current electoral system and the adoption of first past the post. Could I ask those more familar what effect that would have had on the recent election?
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agcatter
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« Reply #261 on: February 20, 2009, 10:04:19 AM »

Kadima seems to think they have more leverage than they do.   They should join the government.  The rotating PM stuff was never going to fly.

Looks like the days of ignoring Iran are over for at least the present.  Iran might want to tread a little lighter in the near future until the left regains control.  At that point they can resume their drive to destroy Israel.
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ag
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« Reply #262 on: February 20, 2009, 12:22:04 PM »

Kadima seems to think they have more leverage than they do.   They should join the government.  T

What for? To repeat the marvelous recent success of the German SPD?

What's the purpose of becoming a part of an unstable, controversy-torn grand coalition, dominated by parties all to the right of it, where its influence is limited, but where it has to sign off on numerous decisions that would be unpopular among its voters (all the while w/ Labor sniping on the side: "what did you guys expect when you voted for the Likud-light?"). Mind it, the next couple of years aren't going to be very economically pleasant - being a part of the government is going to be a mixed blessing for many parties worldwide. But, at least, they'd have real power - what is it, other than tsores, that Kadima would get in exchange for being responsible for the management of the disaster?

Kadima's best strategy is to go into the opposition and wait for the religious parties in the gov't to fight each other, Lieberman to be indicted, etc., etc. - never forgetting to show off the righteous anger about the mismanagement of public affairs. If they do that, the might replace Labor permanently as the major center-left party. If they don't, they might be obliterated by Labor at the next elections.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #263 on: February 20, 2009, 01:42:54 PM »

What is happening in Israel is terrifying. How could a far-rightist get more votes than historical Labour Party ? We can see that Israelis don't believe in peace anymore : it's for the same reason that Palestinians voted for Hamas. If we want to avoid the worsening of the situation, we need a strong and neutral intervention. And Obama is the one who could do this.
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Hash
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« Reply #264 on: February 21, 2009, 06:54:13 AM »

What is happening in Israel is terrifying. How could a far-rightist get more votes than historical Labour Party ? We can see that Israelis don't believe in peace anymore : it's for the same reason that Palestinians voted for Hamas. If we want to avoid the worsening of the situation, we need a strong and neutral intervention. And Obama is the one who could do this.

I wouldn't exactly call Avoda a dovish party either.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #265 on: February 21, 2009, 12:06:04 PM »

That would certainly be better than a fascist like Lieberman.
( personally I would have voted for Meretz )
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Yamor
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« Reply #266 on: February 21, 2009, 12:07:21 PM »

By the way, Lieberman is nowhere near as far-right as people think. He does for example think that parts of Jerusalem can be given to the Palestinians. His two main right-wing policies are 'land-for-land' instead of 'land-for-peace', and that all Israelis have to swear allegiance to the country. He also wants Israeli Arabs to voluntarily move to the eventual Palestinian state.
He does want peace, and does agree there should be a Palestinian state, unlike how some news organisations make out.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #267 on: February 21, 2009, 03:29:30 PM »

Lieberman wants an "ethnically pure" Israel, and amalgamates arabs and terrorists : even Le Pen is not so explicitly far-rightist.
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Yamor
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« Reply #268 on: February 21, 2009, 05:40:18 PM »

Again, all Lieberman wants is to exchange Israeli-Arab areas for West Bank areas which contain Jews. He has never said he only wants Jews in Israel. It just makes sense when creating a two-state solution to have the Arabs in one state, and the Jews in the other.
If you want far-right in Israel, look at the Ichud Leumi and Bayit Yehudi parties. They are real far right wing, even without their religious stance.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #269 on: February 21, 2009, 06:15:06 PM »

In his speeches, he uses very hard formulas, as "we had better to bombard all the Ramallah places where Palestinian authority does business", "to take [palestinian prisoners] to the Dead Sea and throw them away here", "to treat Gaza as Chechnya", or "I don't say that all muslims are terrorists, but that all terrorists are muslims !". ( personal traductions to the french, Marianne #617, p 50-51 )
Are there words of a moderate ?
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #270 on: February 21, 2009, 06:18:36 PM »

I don't think Yamor is calling Lieberman a moderate, just saying that he is more moderate than people make him out to be.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #271 on: February 21, 2009, 06:20:45 PM »

I hope so.
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Yamor
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« Reply #272 on: February 21, 2009, 06:24:43 PM »

Correct. He is definitely further right then Likud, but people have to remember he too wants peace talks to continue, and is willing to give up land (unlike the Zionist religious parties). In fact, on the status of Jerusalem, he is more open then some of the mainstream parties.
Some of the media make out he refuses to recognize the PA, is unwilling to talk, and unwilling to concede land. That's complete rubbish.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #273 on: February 22, 2009, 05:32:15 AM »

You have right. But anyway, his political views are close to racism against arabs. He wants peace only to get Israel free of Palestinians. And that is at least as dangerous as the religious right.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #274 on: March 24, 2009, 12:07:08 PM »

So, erm, Labour has been asked to join the government, and Barak said yes.  But large parts of the party are saying no.
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