Do you think we'll ever see a moderate third party?

[Robespierre's Jaw]

I was receintly playing the 'Wedge' scenario on the original President Forever. For all of you that haven't played that scenario, it's where a moderate party, former by members of both the Republican and Democratic parties. The party is known as the Progressives. That got me thinking do you ever think we'll see a major moderate third-party in the United States? Discuss.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

I was receintly playing the 'Wedge' scenario on the original President Forever. For all of you that haven't played that scenario, it's where a moderate party, former by members of both the Republican and Democratic parties. The party is known as the Progressives. That got me thinking do you ever think we'll see a major moderate third-party in the United States? Discuss.

The word "Progressive" has been hijacked by radical leftists. :-)

I think the two-party establishment is far to ingrained for a third party to emerge.  Furthermore, most election years see a "dash for the middle" from both parties, which takes the wind out of the sails of any independent centrist movement.

The lessons of Anderson and Perot are well learned.

[Reignman]

Maybe a centrist anti-deficit party, but other than that, I don't see any possibilities.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

If the GOP keeps being a white, protestant, heartland party then yes. The GOP would die and be replaced.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Not gonna happen.  The point of most third parties is to advocate one particular issue (i.e. Constitution Party, Prohibition Party, Socialist Workers Party, Communist Party, Green Party, etc.).  Others are inherently extreme (i.e. Libertarian Party).

[Governor PiT]

there is definatly a demand for it, but there is a lack of oranization. The Reform Part came the closest, but is practically defunct, Unity 08 is a fraud by the Clintons, World Bank, or Chinese Government.

[Governor PiT]

yes but not in 2008. maybe 2012.

[NDN]

I think we could see a Radical Centrist Party forming. We have a lot of huge problems emerging right now, which the Washington establishment have either ignored or contributed to:

1. The United States Debt is rapidly getting out of control. This is leading to the dollar falling, in fact the UN has warned that it could essentially implode. The GAO in their report "Fiscal Stewardship: A Critical Challenge Facing our Nation" stated the following:

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Needless to say, neither party gives a damn. They probably won't until everything goes to hell.

2. The middle class is shrinking. Families are struggling to pay for their gas, houses, children's education, etc. What used to be a lifestyle that could be afforded by one income provider has become barely attainable by even two people. Savings are down, health-care and other benefits are either increasingly un-affordable or simply non-existent, and in general people don't feel like they're sharing in the prosperity of the last few years (hence the President's low approval ratings on the economy).

3. The growing irrelevance of our Constitution. Between the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, NSA spying, "National Security Letters," and more both parties for the most part have made our Civil Liberties irrelevant. Let's not forget the questionable constitutionality of a lot of departments. Both parties are complicit in this, and I'm especially ashamed of my party for paying lip service to this while all the while emboldening the people they criticize.

4. Peak oil is rapidly approaching. In fact, at least one scientist says we've already reached the peak for "regular oil." This is, needless to say, huge. Our economy is dependent on oil for practically everything: Fuel, pesticides, cheap containers, even medical technology. We might be developing alternative energy sources, but many of these are presently prohibitively expensive (e.g. hydrogen), take up a lot of space (e.g. ethanol), or are highly polluting (e.g. coal). Both parties pay lip service to this issue, but due to the profound influence of the Oil Lobby and worse nothing of value has been done.

5. Unfunded promises made for Medicare, Social Security and federal retirement programs account for 85% of taxpayer liabilities. State and local government retirement plans account for much of the rest. Taxpayers are now on the hook for a record $59.1 trillion in liabilities, a 2.3% increase from 2006. That amount is equal to $516,348 for every U.S. household. By comparison, U.S. households owe an average of $112,043 for mortgages, car loans, credit cards and all other debt combined. This entitlement crisis will only get worse as the Baby Boomers age. No one in Washington seems to really care, outside of issuing pork-ridden abominations like the recent Medicare Plan D or the joke that was Bush's Social Security "Reform" plan.

6. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Our highway system, built mainly in the 1950's and 1960's, has experienced numerous collapses and is ever more expensive to maintain (often with considerable pork). Our power grids are strained and often based on obsolete or wasteful technology. Even our pipe-lines and water systems are falling apart. The American Society of Civil Engineers has issued a report that estimates that it would cost approximately $1.6 trillion over a five-year period, or about $320 billion a year (and creating as many as five million jobs in the process), to rehabilitate all of our ailing infrastructure. But yet, once again it seems nothing is being done.

7. Illegal Immigration is totally out of control, despite ever more repressive "security measures" the government is turning a blind eye as millions pour in. Aside from contributing to smuggling, gang formation and other crime/security issues this is having numerous other profoundly negative effects on society. Illegal Immigration is threatening our health as TB and other diseases spread due to lack of screening, our public services as millions of undocumented individuals use them without paying taxes, and the environment. Obviously, both parties have done nothing to seriously combat this problem. Quite the contrary, they've been eager to pander to the "Hispanic Vote," despite the protests of many (including plenty within the Hispanic Community).

In short, this country is slowly and quietly falling apart at the seams. If we don't reverse course, then I could see serious political upheaval in this country. Maybe part of that would entail the collapse of one, or even both of, our current political parties. Or more pessimistically, perhaps that could entail even more anti-Democratic legislation being passed. Either way, we're going to be experiencing enormous changes within the next 20-30 years.

[Governor PiT]

sounds like the perfect situation for Lou Dobbs.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

You forgot one.

8. Global warming is quickly melting the ice caps which leads to rising seas. That's not our only problem. If Global warming causes us to return to conditions like the oligocene or warmer eras we'll have a desert covering most of North America south of the great lakes and away from the coast along with hurricane season lasting all year and storms hitting Boston and NYC on a regular basis.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

sounds like the perfect situation for Lou Dobbs.

Not really. Lou Dobbs would just worsen the situation.

[NDN]

sounds like the perfect situation for Lou Dobbs.

Not really. Lou Dobbs would just worsen the situation.

Agreed, Dobbs is a xenophobic hack and would probably turn out to be the next Herbert Hoover if he was elected.

[Governor PiT]

calling someone xenophobic for wanting our laws enforced is as absurd as calling some an anti-semite for not supporting Isreal.

[NDN]

calling someone xenophobic for wanting our laws enforced is as absurd as calling some an anti-semite for not supporting Isreal.

I'm not calling him xenophobic for that. Obviously, I'm for that too and not a fan of Zionism. I'm calling him xenophobic for his obsession with China, Immigration, and Protectionism. He's also gotten chummy with a bunch of known white supremacist minutemen, cited white supremacist sources, and flat out made things up.

Don't even get me started on him being a corporate shill before he started this bogus populist act either.

[Lief 🗽]

We already have a moderate/centrist party. They're called the Democrats.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Lief the man said third party.

[Lief 🗽]

Well, there's no point in having two moderate/centrist parties...

[ag]

Two have any (moderate, conservative, radical, smart, idiotic, religious, atheist or whatever other) real, established nationwide third party in the U.S. you'd have to change the electoral system. As it is, the only possible "third party" that would make a serious imprint in more than a couple of consequtive election could be a regional party of some sort.  Even that, though, is difficult to sustain.

A combination of a nationwide presidential election w/ Westminster-style FPTP for Congress is stronger than almost any other force in the U.S. political system. Instead of third parties you guys have primaries.  Live with it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Two have any (moderate, conservative, radical, smart, idiotic, religious, atheist or whatever other) real, established nationwide third party in the U.S. you'd have to change the electoral system. As it is, the only possible "third party" that would make a serious imprint in more than a couple of consequtive election could be a regional party of some sort.  Even that, though, is difficult to sustain.

A combination of a nationwide presidential election w/ Westminster-style FPTP for Congress is stronger than almost any other force in the U.S. political system. Instead of third parties you guys have primaries.  Live with it.

People need to realize this. If you want third parties, FPTP has to go, period.

[ag]

Two have any (moderate, conservative, radical, smart, idiotic, religious, atheist or whatever other) real, established nationwide third party in the U.S. you'd have to change the electoral system. As it is, the only possible "third party" that would make a serious imprint in more than a couple of consequtive election could be a regional party of some sort.  Even that, though, is difficult to sustain.

A combination of a nationwide presidential election w/ Westminster-style FPTP for Congress is stronger than almost any other force in the U.S. political system. Instead of third parties you guys have primaries.  Live with it.

People need to realize this. If you want third parties, FPTP has to go, period.

Or, at least, the presidency has to go

BTW, I myself like FPTP, don't care about third parties, and, even, don't mind presidential government.

[opebo]

We already have a moderate/centrist party. They're called the Democrats.

Correct!  They're even actually Center-RIGHT.  There is no room at all between the Center-Right party and the Extreme Right party.