Another long overdue poll (Afghanistan)

[freedomburns]

Against it.

It was a war to secure the pipeline to the Central Asian oil and natural gas.  Nothing more.  UBL had nothing to do with 9/11.  I have seen no proof of his involvement, and if I were shown something, I would have to peruse it in detail and with ultimate skepticism.

Nothing the government has presented has been credible to link UBL or the Taliban with 9/11.  This was a war for profit.  If you want to get all righteous and humanitarian, go invade a country with no strategic importance.  Why can't we go back to invading places like Grenada?  That was a fine little war.  This quagmire sh** sucks.

freedomburns

[The Duke]

Against it.

It was a war to secure the pipeline to the Central Asian oil and natural gas.  Nothing more.  UBL had nothing to do with 9/11.  I have seen no proof of his involvement, and if I were shown something, I would have to peruse it in detail and with ultimate skepticism.

Nothing the government has presented has been credible to link UBL or the Taliban with 9/11.  This was a war for profit.  If you want to get all righteous and humanitarian, go invade a country with no strategic importance.  Why can't we go back to invading places like Grenada?  That was a fine little war.  This quagmire sh** sucks.

freedomburns

So where's the pipeline?

[freedomburns]

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There's oodles of information on the pipeline out there John.

Try this link, this guy wrote a book on it:
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/q7.html

Seymour Hersh wrote a book on it, too, called The Price of Oil.

To give you more details, between 1991-1997, major U.S. oil companies including ExxonMobil, Texaco, Unocal, BP Amoco, Shell and Enron directly invested billions in cash bribing heads of state in Kazakhstan to secure equity rights in the huge oil reserves in these regions. The oil companies further commited to future direct investments in Kazakhstan of $35 billion. Not being willing to pay exorbitant prices to Russia to use Russian pipelines, the major oil companies had no way to recoup their investments. [Source: "The Price of Oil" by Seymour Hersh, The New Yorker, July 9, 2001 - The Asia Times, "The Roving Eye Part I Jan. 26, 2002.]


On December 4, 1997 representatives of the Taliban were invited guests to the Texas headquarters of Unocal to negotiate their support for the pipeline. Subsequent reports indicated that the negotiations failed, allegedly because the Taliban wanted too much money. [Source: The BBC, Dec. 4, 1997]

On February 12, 1998 Unocal Vice President John J. Maresca -- later to become a special ambassador to Afghanistan -- testified before the House that until a single, unified, friendly government is in place in Afghanistan, the trans-Afghani pipeline needed to monetize the oil will not be built. [Source: Testimony before the House International Relations Committee: http://www.house.gov/international_relations/105th/ap/wsap212982.htm

[The Duke]

And in 1999, the pipeline was cancelled.

There are indeed oodles of info out there.

[freedomburns]

That pipeline might still get built.  I find it hard to believe that the oil companies will abandon their $40 billion investment in the region.  How do you know that plans are not afoot to build it?  Do you have a source to cite that says they have totally abandoned the project?  I await your proof of this.

freedomburns

[The Duke]

That pipeline might still get built.  I find it hard to believe that the oil companies will abandon their $40 billion investment in the region.  How do you know that plans are not afoot to build it?  Do you have a source to cite that says they have totally abandoned the project?  I await your proof of this.

freedomburns

They've had three years.  They already have a pipeline project going west, through the Caspian Mountains.

I don't have a source, but neither do you.  My view is that I don't need one, since a) I'm not trying to prove something that isn't already conventionally accepted, and b) They had plenty of chances to rebuild the pipeline and they didn't, leaving speculation of the future actions of these companies less than speculative.

Good to see you back, btw, where have you been?

[freedomburns]

Thanks.  It's good to be back.

I have been chasing this girl mostly.  She is giving me some play.  We'll see what happens.  

Too bad the bottom dropped out of the Democrat's campaign in the last week...I came back to see quite a change in the polls, and not entirely to my liking.  No worries, it's like the fourth inning or something and Bush is up three runs.  It ain't over till the matador spits.