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|-+  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  U.S. Presidential Election Results
| | |-+  2008 U.S. Presidential Election Results (Moderator: True Federalist)
| | | |-+  look at these results
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Author Topic: look at these results  (Read 4111 times)
danny
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« on: November 09, 2008, 06:14:28 am »
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ward 6: Obama-476-58-mccain
ward 10: Obama-496-86-mccain
ward 12: Obama-464-23-mccain
ward 13: Obama-330-11-mccain
ward 18: Obama-46-448-mccain
ward 20: Obama-123-512-mccain
ward 21: Obama-98-375-mccain
ward 28: Obama-51-518-mccain
ward 35: Obama-12-671-mccain

I could continue but you get the point.

anyone know where this is from?

hint: not the south.
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2008, 06:38:22 am »
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Interesting results, but no clue where it could be. It has to be somewhere where its minorities living close to very conservative whites.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2008, 06:42:00 am »
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Not in the South? Cincinnati? Springfield MO?
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danny
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2008, 11:00:54 am »
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Not in the South? Cincinnati? Springfield MO?
Not close to the south and not culturally southern either.
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Platypus
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2008, 11:03:29 am »
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Oakland?
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Alcon
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2008, 11:50:55 am »
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Hmm.  Hassidic Jewish enclave?  Monroe County, NY?  Somewhere in NYC?  Am I on the right track?
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danny
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2008, 12:23:17 pm »
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Hmm.  Hassidic Jewish enclave?  Monroe County, NY?  Somewhere in NYC?  Am I on the right track?
The right track, but not the places you mentioned.
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Sbane
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2008, 12:59:52 pm »
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Oakland?

Oakland?Huh Let me break down Oakland voting habits real quick. The blacks and hispanics on the plains vote 9-1 democrat while the rich whites and Asians on the hills vote 7-3 democrat. This year those hill people probably went close to 8-2 Obama. Needless to say you are wrong. Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2008, 02:30:58 pm »
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Ocean County, NJ?
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2008, 02:56:02 pm »
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Wisconsin
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2008, 03:08:40 pm »
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Williamsburg or Crown Heights, Brooklyn?
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brittain33
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 09:34:51 am »
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Wisconsin

My thought was Milwaukee.
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brittain33
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2008, 09:37:01 am »
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Hmm.  Hassidic Jewish enclave?  Monroe County, NY?  Somewhere in NYC?  Am I on the right track?
The right track, but not the places you mentioned.

I have a friend in Baltimore who was surprised to find herself in an 85% McCain neighborhood of Orthodox Jews. Was this it?
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danny
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2008, 10:51:47 am »
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It is indeed Hasidic Jews, but the place is the town of Ramapo, New York, which includes monsey and new square.

http://www.co.rockland.ny.us/BOE/DISTRICT110408.PDF
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brittain33
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2008, 11:03:48 am »
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It is indeed Hasidic Jews, but the place is the town of Ramapo, New York, which includes monsey and new square.

http://www.co.rockland.ny.us/BOE/DISTRICT110408.PDF

So, does that mean one rebbe said McCain and another one said Obama?
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Yamor
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2008, 11:59:52 am »
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Far more likely that all the ultra-orthodox voted McCain, and it's other groupings who voted Obama.
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2008, 12:08:56 pm »
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Far more likely that all the ultra-orthodox voted McCain, and it's other groupings who voted Obama.

Yep, that's pretty much how it works.

Although the ultra-orthodox do vote Democratic en masse, just not nearly as often.  Extremely strong tribal voting patterns.
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2008, 12:21:28 pm »
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Far more likely that all the ultra-orthodox voted McCain, and it's other groupings who voted Obama.

Yep, that's pretty much how it works.

Although the ultra-orthodox do vote Democratic en masse, just not nearly as often.  Extremely strong tribal voting patterns.
they are single issue voters.  If they think either candidate MIGHT do something they perceive as iffy with respect to Israel, they will avoid that candidate like the plague.  I'd imagine those areas are regularly voting REpublican (for PRes, at least) and voted stronger than usual for McCain this time.  Most Israelis I know voted McCain.
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2008, 01:37:27 pm »
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Yup, the one country in the world who weren't crazy for Obama was Israel.
I think that although the Jewish vote is generally Democratic, the ultra-orthodox are far more Republican. This time it was even more so, due to Obama being lighter on Iran, and also fears for his stand on the entire middle-east.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2008, 01:57:14 pm »
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Far more likely that all the ultra-orthodox voted McCain, and it's other groupings who voted Obama.

Yep, that's pretty much how it works.

Although the ultra-orthodox do vote Democratic en masse, just not nearly as often.  Extremely strong tribal voting patterns.

See also Stamford Hill in Hackney.
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2008, 02:04:06 pm »
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And golders green, but there's more variation there, although traditionally they've supported the Conservatives, like the wider Jewish community. However, recently more ultra-orthodox have been voting Labour. With the obvious exception of Ken Livingstone.
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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2008, 02:48:22 pm »
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And golders green, but there's more variation there, although traditionally they've supported the Conservatives, like the wider Jewish community. However, recently more ultra-orthodox have been voting Labour. With the obvious exception of Ken Livingstone.

Yes, it's interesting in that there's actual anti-Semitism and widespread anti-Israel sentiment in the British left, while in the U.S., it's almost completely marginalized.
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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2008, 07:14:39 pm »
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And golders green, but there's more variation there, although traditionally they've supported the Conservatives, like the wider Jewish community. However, recently more ultra-orthodox have been voting Labour. With the obvious exception of Ken Livingstone.

Yes, it's interesting in that there's actual anti-Semitism and widespread anti-Israel sentiment in the British left, while in the U.S., it's almost completely marginalized.

Because the British left consists mostly of class lines. There are plenty of American "rightists" who would be staunch "leftists" in Britain (read: Republicans, Labourites), and the reverse is also true. The US's left-right economic divides, where it has them (rarely) tend to be along racial lines. And many of those American Republicans who would be British Labourites harbor some pretty strong anti-Semitic views. Of course, even that is mitigated by the very American view that Israel is basically a satellite state of the US.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2008, 07:42:19 pm »
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And golders green, but there's more variation there, although traditionally they've supported the Conservatives,

In part that'd be because they're richer; IIRC the party affluent Jews in Golders Green and so on voted for when the local Tory establishment was at its most anti-Semitic (this'd be over 40 years ago now) were the Liberals, not Labour (you still get traces of this in local elections, weirdly). Mind you, under normal (ie; non-Livingstone-influenced) circumstances Labour does a lot better in the strongly Jewish (according to the census; so many secular Jews are missed, changing the geographical pattern) parts of Barnet than you'd normally expect for affluent-to-rich middle suburbia. Not so much in Harrow for whatever reason.

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like the wider Jewish community.

In that part of London (extending out into Herts), yeah (since the '70's or so anyway). The Manchester and Leeds Jewish votes have been quite heavily Labour in recent General Elections IIRC.

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However, recently more ultra-orthodox have been voting Labour. With the obvious exception of Ken Livingstone.

Though even Livingstone did well with them in 2004 IIRC. But that was before... well... aha...

Fun fact; in one ward in Hendon with a big Jewish population, several hundred more people voted for the Labour candidate in a local council by-election than for Livingstone (both were on the same day). And it's obvious from turnout figures that a lot of them didn't vote in the London elections at all.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2008, 07:51:28 pm »
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And golders green, but there's more variation there, although traditionally they've supported the Conservatives, like the wider Jewish community. However, recently more ultra-orthodox have been voting Labour. With the obvious exception of Ken Livingstone.

Yes, it's interesting in that there's actual anti-Semitism and widespread anti-Israel sentiment in the British left, while in the U.S., it's almost completely marginalized.

Of course you also have a strong tradition in the opposite direction; the guy who Livingstone (basically) cheated out of his seat in 1985 (Reg Freeson) ran (amongst other things) the British branch of Poale Zion for years.
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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