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Question: Who is the worst president of the past 50 years?
Bush
Carter
Nixon/Ford
other
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Author Topic: Worst president in 50 years  (Read 22474 times)
Nixon in '80
nixon1980
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2008, 08:31:47 pm »
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Reagan didn't "win" the Cold War, but he definitely helped. Ultimately, we didn't win the Cold War, the Soviet Union lost it. Reagan just hastened their loss by restarting the arms race.

He also hastened it by continuing Carter's support for the rebels in Afganistan, though it appears that to that was a bad idea.

Agreed.
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Lunar
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2008, 08:33:08 pm »
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Which Bush?

lol
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Jacobtm
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2008, 09:01:23 pm »
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Carter's problems were thing that he could've dealt with better, but did not create.

Bush was responsible for leaving Rumsfeld in charge of a losing war for 3 years out of a sense of loyalty. Once leadership changed, we saw that the war in Iraq wasn't a lost cause, it was only the incompetent leadership we'd had that made it seem as such.

Lyndon Johnson on the other hand, neither got us out of Vietnam, nor provided us with a winning strategy. And unlike Bush, he actually believed that there was no way to win, and sent far more thousands of young soldiers off to their death.

Also, draft vs. no draft, Bush clearly comes out least bad.

But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 09:09:20 pm by Jacobtm »Logged

Why do so many people here cheer on war crimes?
Israel and the United States "killing dozens of civilians with explosives", as you phrase it, has, throughout history, almost always been a good thing.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2008, 09:43:29 pm »
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But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place. LBJs other problem was he was a very dirty politician who had no qualms about cheating and spying on political opponents.
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War on Want
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« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2008, 09:59:23 pm »
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Bush for obvious reasons but Reagan comes very close.
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Jacobtm
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« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2008, 10:08:28 pm »
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But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place. LBJs other problem was he was a very dirty politician who had no qualms about cheating and spying on political opponents.

Of course, and even after the signing of the Civil Rights Act there was problem with enforcement for years and years, but that doesn't mean that it didn't have an impact; it most certainly did.
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Why do so many people here cheer on war crimes?
Israel and the United States "killing dozens of civilians with explosives", as you phrase it, has, throughout history, almost always been a good thing.
phk
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2008, 10:11:58 pm »
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Can't say yet
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A18
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« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2008, 10:59:42 pm »
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I'll go ahead and commit heresy by saying that Carter is one of our better presidents. In the past 50 years, he and Eisenhower are the closest we've come to a non-imperial presidency. And while both made major blunders, neither significantly undermined American liberty.

But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place.

Redundant? The 1965 Voting Rights Act was flawed legislation--and certainly, the Act has only gotten worse with time--but hardly redundant.

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LBJs other problem was he was a very dirty politician who had no qualms about cheating and spying on political opponents.

True. Of course, he was hardly alone in that regard...
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Senator Conor Flynn
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« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2008, 11:13:01 pm »
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I go with Reagan, for establishing the whole tax-and-don't spend mentality.

But Xahar, I thought it was Gordon Gekko. Conor's sad now SadSadSadSad

Anywho, as for the question, its a tie between Ronald Wilson Reagan and George Walker Bush for numerous reasons. Reaganomics plays a significant factor in my judgement, likewise with their disastrous foreign policies. Now if somebody tells me once more that Reagan "won" the Cold War I shall scream louder than Janet Leigh, in the 1960 Alfred Hitchcock film Psycho.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2008, 01:48:08 am »
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But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place.

Redundant? The 1965 Voting Rights Act was flawed legislation--and certainly, the Act has only gotten worse with time--but hardly redundant.

Yep, see the Fifteenth Amendment. See the biggest problem was and still is that when the government creates a law, enforces it in a piss poor manner then enacts an even more regressive law.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2008, 06:44:37 am »
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I'll go ahead and commit heresy by saying that Carter is one of our better presidents. In the past 50 years, he and Eisenhower are the closest we've come to a non-imperial presidency. And while both made major blunders, neither significantly undermined American liberty.

But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place.

Redundant? The 1965 Voting Rights Act was flawed legislation--and certainly, the Act has only gotten worse with time--but hardly redundant.

Quote
LBJs other problem was he was a very dirty politician who had no qualms about cheating and spying on political opponents.

True. Of course, he was hardly alone in that regard...

Phil,

Boy, I couldn't disagree with you more.

Do you remember the double digit inflation?

Do you remember the gas lines?

Do you remember the American embassy personnel being held hostage?

Do you remember the attempt to get the Consumer Products Safety Commission to ban firearms?

Do you remember the crime rate was higher in 1980 than at any time in the preceding or succeeding twenty seven years?

Do you remember how the military had been so short of funds it couldn't train or maintain its vehicles?

Do you remember Carter's infamous statement about not fearing communism (and denouncing those who opposed communist expansionism)?
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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2008, 10:40:05 am »
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Do you remember the double digit inflation?

A result of the Nixon/Ford years.

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Do you remember the gas lines?

I remember them from before Carter took office. 1973?

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Do you remember the American embassy personnel being held hostage?

Carter mishandled a bad situaton that was created by the Nixon/Ford foreign policy mess.

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Do you remember the attempt to get the Consumer Products Safety Commission to ban firearms?

That was during the Ford administration. 

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Do you remember the crime rate was higher in 1980 than at any time in the preceding or succeeding twenty seven years?

It was higher under Bush (Sr.).

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Do you remember how the military had been so short of funds it couldn't train or maintain its vehicles?

A result of the Nixon/Ford years.  Military spending went up under Carter.

Quote
Do you remember Carter's infamous statement about not fearing communism (and denouncing those who opposed communist expansionism)?

I remember the first part, about how we shouldn't be so being obsessively afraid of the commies, since we were better and stronger than them.  The other part I don't remember.   

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StatesRights
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2008, 11:37:16 am »
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Shift the blame is fun! In your warped world are Democrats guilty of anything?
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« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2008, 11:39:42 am »
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Tie between Bush 43 and Ford, both have put the economy in a terrible state and have done nothing to help America.
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A18
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« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2008, 12:35:40 pm »
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But of course, Johnson did sign the voting rights act, so it's all a mixed bag.

And then you have to take in to account that the Act was redundant in the first place.

Redundant? The 1965 Voting Rights Act was flawed legislation--and certainly, the Act has only gotten worse with time--but hardly redundant.

Yep, see the Fifteenth Amendment. See the biggest problem was and still is that when the government creates a law, enforces it in a piss poor manner then enacts an even more regressive law.

Oh, sure; racial discrimination in voting was already illegal. But the purpose of the Voting Rights Act was to enforce that Amendment through remedial and preventative measures. Those measures were scarcely redundant.
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ChrisFromNJ
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« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2008, 12:37:18 pm »
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Shift the blame is fun! In your warped world are Democrats guilty of anything?

He's just trying to bat down the usual right wing talking points. Good for him. They've been allowed to fester for far too long.
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« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2008, 12:49:43 pm »
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In the order of failed recent presidents: Hoover, Nixon, Bush, Carter.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2008, 04:43:00 pm »
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The Decider.

With all the others, you can enumerate several scandals. major mistakes and bad ideas.  But more good ones. For Nixon, there was Watergate and Vietnam.  But there was also the EPA, the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts, the voting age and more.  For Carter, there was malaise and a flaccid response to Soviet aggression.  But there was Camp David.  For Reagan, there was a shameful support for death squads and brutish dictators.  But there was also a realistic and pragmatic engagement with our enemies that, backed with serious toughness, led to a dramatic de-escalation in international tension...and eventually, the utter collapse of Soviet Communism

For The Decider, I am not sure we have the bandwidth to relate every major cluster.  From Iraq, to politicizing the DoJ, to torture to the utter debacle that was Katrina...his was a Presidency that was a complete and total failure. Beyond the specific offenses, there's the wretching odor of a man who promised humility and delivered hubris...who promised to build bridges, but only managed to unify some Iraqis with Al Qaeda (when they were long time enemies)...and who considered razor thin election victories as "mandates" for his agenda.

This man is a spoiled rich boy in a sailor suit, with an all day sucker. 

In the interest of generosity, I can say his decision to protect a couple of wildlife and natural areas was both wise and "conservative" in the best sense of the word.  But even his AIDS relief program -- which I praised to the heavens at the time -- turned out to be smoke and mirrors.

I was not a big Clinton or Carter fan.  I see their errors and mistakes very clearly.  But forget the past 50 years.  America has never had a President in its history as awful as the self-proclaimed "Commader Guy".

I wish him health, happiness and prosperity in his retirement.   But as to his policies, good riddance to bad rubbish.
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« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2008, 04:53:11 pm »
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LBJ going away is the worst, and here are some of the reasons:

1. Carried on Vietnam thinking the war could not be won, but was unable to muster the courage to say so, and let the faucet flow of American men into the bathtub, and down the drain at the bottom.

2. Guns and butter led to letting inflation out of the bottle, and it took close to 20 years to get it back in, with years of stagflation and recession.

3. Was a liar and corrupt, abused the FBI, and paved the way for Nixonian and to some extent Clintonian politics.

4. Helped weaken the family with the misdirected metrics of the War on Poverty, that exacerbated the underclass which festered until welfare reform in the 1990's.

5. Pushed through a poorly designed medicare system that was neither means tested nor triaged.

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J. J.
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« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2008, 05:14:40 pm »
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Quote
Do you remember the double digit inflation?

A result of the Nixon/Ford years.



In 1979, Nixon/Ford were long gone.
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« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2008, 05:35:38 pm »
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I vote for Reagan for giving a politically popular voice to an asinine economic concept that, for some time, was the basis for winning presidential elections. Reagan effectively, and maybe proudly used the ignorance of the American public to push through his corporatist agenda. the arms race is also a factor.

Hate on the man that won the cold war?

Do tell, friend...how is it that Reagan "won" the Cold War (as though the idea of "winning" a cold war isn't asinine enough). Either way, whether or not he secured a win in the most pointless dick waving contest in American history is irrelevant and in no way makes up "supply-side" economics and the debt which ballooned during his presidency and has continued to balloon under Presidents that buy into the ideology. A win in a pretend war and a cosmetic fiscal policy designed only to win elections. I can't say I am impressed.
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« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2008, 05:42:56 pm »
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I go with Reagan, for establishing the whole tax-and-don't spend mentality.

But Xahar, I thought it was Gordon Gekko. Conor's sad now SadSadSadSad

I'm sorry. Sad

The collapse of the Soviet Union was caused by internal factors.

That is all.
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« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2008, 05:46:53 pm »
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Nixon....Ford wasn't that bad of a President...he just really didn't do anything. My dad met him once, apparently he was a pretty friendly and decent fellow.

Carter comes next, then I guess Reagan and Daddy Bush.
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« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2008, 05:51:08 pm »
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It's between Johnson, Carter, and Bush 43.  Carter and Bush inherited a lot, and had more to deal with than other presidencies (i.e., Eisenhower and Clinton).  

Bush wasn't a great President but he was right on the economy most of the time.  And I say that by meaning he knew how NOT to do things (I don't think a President can actively make the economy "better".  He can only actively make it worse).  So he came into office during a recession (not Clinton's fault, IMO, just a natural cycle) and for the better part of his administration we've had economic prosperity.  My only economic gripe with him is the fact that he couldn't control the Congress in his first term, hammering all the discretionary spending they wanted right through.   And still, Iraq and the conduct of his primary agents (Cheney and Rumsfeld) were a huge error on his part and should not be easily forgiven.

Carter gets a bad rap.  The world handed him a lot of garbage during his term.  Economically, he faced significant challenges, but it seems as though every move he made was the wrong move and only made things worse.  But I do believe he made those moves on principle, so I won't call him the "worst" President, but more of the wrong President at the wrong time.  

LBJ, however, doesn't get a pass from me.  Not only did he prosecute a war as incompetently as Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, but he also decided it was the perfect time for massive social programs.  

It's difficult to compare presidencies because they haven't all dealth with the same level of challenges, but my rankings going back to Ike would go something like this...

1. Reagan
2. Kennedy
3. Clinton
4. Eisenhower
5. Bush 41
6. Ford
7. Nixon
8. Bush 43
9. Carter
10. Johnson
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Nixon in '80
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« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2008, 07:18:46 pm »
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Nixon....Ford wasn't that bad of a President...he just really didn't do anything. My dad met him once, apparently he was a pretty friendly and decent fellow.

Carter comes next, then I guess Reagan and Daddy Bush.

Ford gave us the Helsinki Accords, a very politically unpopular move at the time, but one that eventually bore fruit in the form of the liberal democratic movements that swept through the communist bloc several years later. I believe this, alone, is enough to qualify him as an above-average President.
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