SPC (and other libertarians) Political Views Discussion Thread

[JohnFKennedy]

Okay, I will respond to most of your post at a future date - particularly your delusional notion that we must have one extreme or the other - but I'd much rather focus on my original question for now.

Why does one have the right to self-ownership and why does that extend outwards to property? Does property only mean that which I have shaped through my own labour or can I own a plot of land that I have done nothing to?

[SPC]

Okay, I will respond to most of your post at a future date - particularly your delusional notion that we must have one extreme or the other - but I'd much rather focus on my original question for now.

Why does one have the right to self-ownership and why does that extend outwards to property? Does property only mean that which I have shaped through my own labour or can I own a plot of land that I have done nothing to?

The right to self-ownership is self-evident. One has the property right to any resource that he mixes with his labor. You can only own the plot of land if you purchase it from someone who has already mixed his labor with the land.

[JohnFKennedy]

Okay, I will respond to most of your post at a future date - particularly your delusional notion that we must have one extreme or the other - but I'd much rather focus on my original question for now.

Why does one have the right to self-ownership and why does that extend outwards to property? Does property only mean that which I have shaped through my own labour or can I own a plot of land that I have done nothing to?

The right to self-ownership is self-evident. One has the property right to any resource that he mixes with his labor. You can only own the plot of land if you purchase it from someone who has already mixed his labor with the land.

Why is it self-evident? Do animals share that right?

[Bacon King]

1. What evidence is there that petroleum source rocks are produced by some other force than the sedimentation of microscopic ocean life?
2. Whatever this evidence, how does it counteract the fact that every single petroleum bed on this planet is found in a location that the geologic record shows to have once been a warm shallow sea (that have lots of algae and such)?
3. Do you acknowledge that any geologist, given their background and training, would have more available information on this topic than you? Does it not follow that the average geologist's opinion would be more likely to be accurate than yours? If abiogenetic oil was in any way a credible theory, wouldn't more than a very small handul of geologists support it?

[SPC]

1. What evidence is there that petroleum source rocks are produced by some other force than the sedimentation of microscopic ocean life?
2. Whatever this evidence, how does it counteract the fact that every single petroleum bed on this planet is found in a location that the geologic record shows to have once been a warm shallow sea (that have lots of algae and such)?
3. Do you acknowledge that any geologist, given their background and training, would have more available information on this topic than you? Does it not follow that the average geologist's opinion would be more likely to be accurate than yours? If abiogenetic oil was in any way a credible theory, wouldn't more than a very small handul of geologists support it?

For the record, this is a political debate thread, not a geological debate thread. With regard to question 3, there have been several times throughout history when the majority of scientists were wrong. Skepticism is healthy for science, and it is entirely within my right to have doubts about the biotic oil theory.

[Bacon King]

Ah; since you didn't answer me in that thread so I posted it here, as this seems to be the place you argue stuff at.

Anyway, while I agree both that a skeptical attitude is healthy and that you do have a right to believe in whatever you want to, I'd like to actually try to understand if you have any idea about what you're talking about here. Because, well, I'm sure you also have a right to believe the Earth is flat, for example, but that doesn't mean it isn't wrong.

[Fine...I Made This More Civil]

I agree with almost every single one of your views SPC.

[SPC]

How can you possibly hold my views and support Bush at the same time?

[Fine...I Made This More Civil]

Pragmatism. You can't expect a good market system to ever come about, and the Bushes have kept the left angry and out of power, so I'm all for them. Plus, I like pissing of the liberals, and they hate Bush-lovers.

[SPC]

the Bushes have kept the left angry and out of power, so I'm all for them

Did you pay attention to the 2008 election results? Also, isn't it more important that that power doesn't exist than that the "left" controls it?

[Fine...I Made This More Civil]

I don't know. I'm not a philosopher. I just see that the left is trying to destroy the country, and I'm not standing for it.

[afleitch]

I don't know. I'm not a philosopher.

It shows.

[Fine...I Made This More Civil]

I don't know. I'm not a philosopher.

It shows.

You don't seem to be so ignorant by your PM scores, but I must be wrong.

[afleitch]

I don't know. I'm not a philosopher.

It shows.

You don't seem to be so ignorant by your PM scores, but I must be wrong.

I don't mean to be rude but here's some advice.

Posts like these;

I don't know. I'm not a philosopher. I just see that the left is trying to destroy the country, and I'm not standing for it.

Don't cut it on this forum. You've got to give it meat.

[RIP Robert H Bork]

This will serve as the official thead for those who wish to debate my views.

What exactly are your political views?

[Fine...I Made This More Civil]

I don't know. I'm not a philosopher.

It shows.

You don't seem to be so ignorant by your PM scores, but I must be wrong.

I don't mean to be rude but here's some advice.

Posts like these;

I don't know. I'm not a philosopher. I just see that the left is trying to destroy the country, and I'm not standing for it.

Don't cut it on this forum. You've got to give it meat.

That is OK. I am not offended by those who give advice. I am offended by those who insult. In other threads, I have pointed out that Barack Obama is adding more to our deficit than ever during the Bush administration, even though he promised to lower the deficit. He is appointing cabinet members who don't pay their taxes, yet his VP says paying taxes is patriotic. His so-called "stimulus" plan is what is really getting on my nerves though.

[SPC]

This will serve as the official thead for those who wish to debate my views.

What exactly are your political views?

I think I've summaried it somewhere else, but I'm pro-peace, anti-gun control, pro-sound money, pro-free speech, pro-drug legalization, pro-restitution, anti-intellectual property, anti-environmentalist, pro-secession, capitalist, radical libertarian. Chances are I have left much out of that summary.

I don't know. I'm not a philosopher. I just see that the left is trying to destroy the country, and I'm not standing for it.

I don't doubt that the left is trying to destroy the country. However, I think that you are addressing the symptom rather than the disease (statism).

[Eraserhead]

Let's all put on tin foil hats and hang out in my basement where THE STATE won't find us.

[SPC]

Let's all put on tin foil hats and hang out in my basement where THE STATE won't find us.

Do you wish to make a legitimate argument, or are you just going to throw out ad hominem attacks?

[Fine...I Made This More Civil]

Let's all put on tin foil hats and hang out in my basement where THE STATE won't find us.

Do you wish to make a legitimate argument, or are you just going to throw out ad hominem attacks?

Quite honestly, I believe most attacks are just that. No real evidence.

[SPC]

Since nobody has commented on this for awhile, I'll start a discussion regarding secession.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Secession is a fundamental right of any political entity. No individual or group should be forcibly bound to a despotic authoritative body.

[SPC]

     Secession is a fundamental right of any political entity. No individual or group should be forcibly bound to a despotic authoritative body.

[Earth]

Libertarians on the board, what make you of Rand's Objectivist philosophy?

[SPC]

Libertarians on the board, what make you of Rand's Objectivist philosophy?

Good except for her foreign policy views.