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June 19, 2013, 08:48:56 am
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South African Demographic Maps
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Topic: South African Demographic Maps (Read 5782 times)
PASOK Leader Hashemite
Hashemite
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South African Demographic Maps
«
on:
December 14, 2008, 08:06:22 pm »
Grabbed off the Stats ZA website. From the 2001 census
"Population group"
Language
% born outside ZA
Median age
Pop 20+ with no schooling
Household size
Households without improved toilet facilities
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Xahar
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #1 on:
December 14, 2008, 11:43:35 pm »
Can someone explain the African-Coloured divide to me?
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Quote from: Sibboleth on February 28, 2009, 04:08:37 pm
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The Head Beagle
Linus Van Pelt
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #2 on:
December 15, 2008, 12:14:21 am »
"Africans" means black Africans, i.e. everybody in most other countries in Africa, who in South Africa are mostly Bantu and speak African languages.
"Coloured" is a sort of ethnic (for lack of a better word) group that evolved under Dutch colonization who mostly have mixed ancestry of Dutch, Khoisan (the natives of western South Africa who have lighter skin than most Africans - think the Bushmen of the Kalahari) and the various places the Dutch brought slaves from (Indonesia, etc.). As you can see from the map, they speak Afrikaans. So its
sort of
like Metis in Canada or Mestizo in some of Latin America - originally just meant mixed-race, but over the years has evolved into its own group identity. This separate identity was furthered by Apartheid racial laws which considered Coloured a distinct group, with more rights than blacks but fewer than whites (The schooling map looks like it might reflect this).
«
Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 12:16:08 am by Linus Van Pelt
»
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Xahar
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #3 on:
December 15, 2008, 12:18:34 am »
IIRC, Coloureds had a chamber in the Tricameral Parliament. But why is there such a marked divide?
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Quote from: Sibboleth on February 28, 2009, 04:08:37 pm
I'm not sure if this new tendency to appeal to the apparent inherent evil of Xahar in all things even remotely related to forum policing or this damn game is especially helpful.
The Head Beagle
Linus Van Pelt
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #4 on:
December 15, 2008, 12:27:18 am »
Quote from: Attorney General Xahar on December 15, 2008, 12:18:34 am
IIRC, Coloureds had a chamber in the Tricameral Parliament. But why is there such a marked divide?
A geographical divide, you mean? The Dutch Cape Colony was only in the western half.
(There are Afrikaners in the east, but that's cause they fled when the British took over the Cape, in the Voortrek. But since they then wanted a self-sufficient republic rather than a colony for the homeland, they violated the 60's slogan and made war rather than love with the locals).
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Governor PiT
Robert Stark
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #5 on:
December 15, 2008, 03:23:19 am »
"Population group"
They should devide the Country in two. Probably East by West.
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Alcon
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #6 on:
December 15, 2008, 04:00:46 am »
Why is the northwest province so educated but so poor?
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n/c
Verily
Cuivienen
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #7 on:
December 15, 2008, 03:40:34 pm »
Quote from: Alcon on December 15, 2008, 04:00:46 am
Why is the northwest province so educated but so poor?
Northern Cape is not that much poorer than Western Cape. It's also sparsely populated and mostly desert, so there are no large cities with concentrations of uneducated internal migrants.
Population density, courtesy Wikipedia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Population_density_ZA.svg
«
Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 03:44:39 pm by Verily
»
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Vasall des Midas
Lewis Trondheim
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #8 on:
December 16, 2008, 02:49:09 pm »
Quote from: Linus Van Pelt on December 15, 2008, 12:14:21 am
"Coloured" is a sort of ethnic (for lack of a better word) group that evolved under Dutch colonization who mostly have mixed ancestry of Dutch, Khoisan (the natives of western South Africa who have lighter skin than most Africans - think the Bushmen of the Kalahari) and the various places the Dutch brought slaves from (Indonesia, etc.). As you can see from the map, they speak Afrikaans. So its
sort of
like Metis in Canada or Mestizo in some of Latin America - originally just meant mixed-race, but over the years has evolved into its own group identity. This separate identity was furthered by Apartheid racial laws which considered Coloured a distinct group, with more rights than blacks but fewer than whites (The schooling map looks like it might reflect this).
Yeah. Only thing to add is that many, probably most, Coloreds are pretty pureblood Khoi actually.
But they certainly didn't like it when early ANC propaganda lumped them with the "Natives" (later "Africans"). Note that they speak, for the most part, Afrikaans.
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Quote from: True Federalist on April 28, 2013, 01:25:07 am
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #9 on:
December 21, 2008, 01:53:22 pm »
And I thought that English was everyone's native language. . . (at least in the east)
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Vasall des Midas
Lewis Trondheim
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #10 on:
December 21, 2008, 02:11:00 pm »
Quote from: True Democrat on December 21, 2008, 01:53:22 pm
And I thought that English was everyone's native language. . . (at least in the east)
English has replaced Afrikaans as South Africa's lingua franca, what, a hundred years ago? But few people speak it as their first language except for the Non-Afrikaner Whites, the Natal Indians, and apparently some Cape Town Coloreds.
(You're right about the East thingy, though - Afrikaans has no presence in Natal, all the Whites and Asians there speak English.)
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #11 on:
December 21, 2008, 11:38:28 pm »
Quote from: last of the Entwives on December 21, 2008, 02:11:00 pm
Quote from: True Democrat on December 21, 2008, 01:53:22 pm
And I thought that English was everyone's native language. . . (at least in the east)
English has replaced Afrikaans as South Africa's lingua franca, what, a hundred years ago? But few people speak it as their first language except for the Non-Afrikaner Whites, the Natal Indians, and apparently some Cape Town Coloreds.
(You're right about the East thingy, though - Afrikaans has no presence in Natal, all the Whites and Asians there speak English.)
What do they speak in Parliament?
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Lol Winfield. This quote is from a thread entitled "what do the following proceed to do if they are not nominated?"
Quote from: Tammany Hall Republican on January 07, 2008, 11:45:07 pm
Romney - President of Harvard
Vasall des Midas
Lewis Trondheim
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Posts: 56719
Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #12 on:
December 22, 2008, 04:59:30 am »
Table of language by race...
Black African... 30.1 Zulu, 22.3 Xhosa, 11.9 Pedi, 10.3 Tswana, 10.0 Sotho (using the official South African names but dropping the prefixes that Bantu word formation so loves, ie using the root words only), four minor official languages 13.9 together, Afrikaans 0.7, English 0.5, non-official languages 0.3
Coloured... Afrikaans 79.5, English 18.9, Bantu official languages (mostly Tswana and Xhosa) 1.4, non-official languages 0.2
Indian or Asian... English 93.8, non-official languages 3.8, Afrikaans 1.7, Bantu official languages 0.7 (mostly Zulu and, more surprisingly, Ndebele)
White... Afrikaans 59.1, English 39.3, non-official languages 1.1, Bantu official languages 0.5
Source notes that there is no Census information on ability to speak other languages.
Quoting from some paper I found over the net "The
Constitution enshrines plurilingualism: the former language dispensation based on
official bilingualism has been replaced by official multilingualism. Equal rights are
entrenched for the 11 languages used by 99% of the South African population. These
languages are the two former official languages, English and Afrikaans, and nine
African languages (list). The Constitution prescribes affirmative action for the African
languages that were marginalised in the past: these languages "must enjoy parity of
esteem and must be treated equitably. (...) the Constitution furthermore –
• prohibits discrimination against anyone on the grounds of language;
• prescribes that everyone has the right to education in any official language(s) of
their choice;
• enshrines the right of linguistic communities to use their cultures and languages;
• prescribes that every person has the right to access to interpreting during a trial,
and arrested and accused persons to information in a language that they
understand."
The paper goes on to describe something called the National Language Policy Framework.
"The aim of the NLPF is to -
• promote the equitable use of the 11 official languages;
• facilitate equitable access to government services, knowledge and information;
• ensure redress for the previously marginalised official indigenous languages;
• initiate and sustain a vibrant discourse on multilingualism with all language
communities;
• encourage the learning of other official indigenous languages to promote national
unity, and linguistic and cultural diversity; and
• promote good language management for efficient public service administration to
meet client expectations and needs.
The policy targets all government structures (national, provincial and local government)
and institutions exercising public power, as well as the national legislature and the nine
provincial legislatures (where regional circumstances determine the configuration of
languages used). The private sector is not bound by the policy, but government has
expressed its intent to encourage and support the development and implementation of
language policies by private enterprises.
The provisions for language use in the state administration are as follows:
• Each government department must designate a working language(s) for both intra and
interdepartmental communication.
• Communication with the public via official correspondence must take place in the
language of the citizen's choice.
• Official documents by national government departments must be published in all 11
languages where the effective and stable operation of government would require such
action (example). In cases where the use of all official languages is not required, documents must be published according to the principle of "functional multilingualism". According to
this principle, a selection of languages may be used by government, depending on the
intended function or purpose of a document and its target audience. In accordance
with this principle, a minimum requirement for government was set: official
documents must be published simultaneously in at least six languages:
o English;
o Afrikaans;
o Tsonga;
o Venda;
o At least one language from the Nguni group (isiNdebele, isiXhosa, isiZulu
and SiSwati); and
o At least one from the Sotho group (Sepedi, Sesotho and Setswana).
The language from the Nguni and Sotho groups must be selected according to
rotation.[the principle here is, presumably, that there is a degree of mutual intelligibility between these languages. Venda is one of the smallest official languages and spoken only in the far northeast corner.] (...)
• Communication at international level will be in English or the preferred language of
the country concerned."
Note that this describes the state they aim at reaching someday ("over a reasonable period"), not current state of affairs effective immediately.
So much for that. Scrolling down further, I find...
"Language planning experts and language stakeholders alike are increasingly arguing that
recent language practice in South Africa has been decidedly retrogressive in nature
(references). An overview of the flurry of analyses on South Africa's first decade of liberation
confirms the low priority of "the language issue" on the national agenda (ditto, followed by this newspaper quote: ) "We find that our 10-year-old democracy has been the greatest enemy of
indigenous languages. All the lofty pronouncements made in the early days of
transition seem to have been thrown out of the window and the authorities have
paid token attention to the issue. (...) The work of government is conducted virtually entirely in English and the language of our culturally diverse Parliament is almost exclusively English. Many senior politicians stay away from African language radio stations, presumably
because they perceive those audiences as not sophisticated enough. ….
Universities are battling to keep African language departments open as student
numbers dwindle, … book publishing in indigenous languages is on its deathbed,
and … the use of these languages among urban native speakers is becoming
unfashionable."
I'll close out with this quote: "The renowned Nigerian language planner, Ayo Bamgbose, rated South Africa's language policy as not "conforming to the ideal", but at least "better designed and formulated than those of most African countries" South Africa's NLPF is indeed in
many respects an exemplary attempt to address the slow and somewhat fragmented
implementation of policy in South Africa. This has resulted in a retrogressive situation
which, notwithstanding the admirable aims of the NLPF, has delivered the following
outcomes in the first decade of democracy:
(a) Language domination with no delivery in respect of language equity for the
indigenous official languages.
b) Inequality of opportunity as regards access to government services, knowledge
and information, and
(c) The marginalisation of the indigenous languages, and arguably also increasing
marginalisation of Afrikaans."
So presumably you
can
speak all eleven official languages in Parliament, but hardly anybody ever does speak anything but English.
It's kind of understandable - the Apartheid regime always put a lot of ressources into maintaining a strong role for Afrikaans. If these ressources were essentially distributed among ten languages, it's going to be too much to starve, too little to live for any single one.
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Quote from: True Federalist on April 28, 2013, 01:25:07 am
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Winston Disraeli
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #13 on:
January 04, 2009, 12:23:11 pm »
How come so little of it is English?
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PASOK Leader Hashemite
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #14 on:
January 04, 2009, 12:24:37 pm »
Quote from: Winston Disraeli on January 04, 2009, 12:23:11 pm
How come so little of it is English?
Most South African whites are Afrikaners.
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #15 on:
January 16, 2009, 06:09:10 pm »
Quote from: Hep Naoned, Breizh Ebet on January 04, 2009, 12:24:37 pm
Quote from: Winston Disraeli on January 04, 2009, 12:23:11 pm
How come so little of it is English?
Most South African whites are Afrikaners.
Yeah.. I thought there were more than that though.
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Verily
Cuivienen
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #16 on:
January 16, 2009, 11:55:36 pm »
Quote from: God of Hellfiyah on January 16, 2009, 06:09:10 pm
Quote from: Hep Naoned, Breizh Ebet on January 04, 2009, 12:24:37 pm
Quote from: Winston Disraeli on January 04, 2009, 12:23:11 pm
How come so little of it is English?
Most South African whites are Afrikaners.
Yeah.. I thought there were more than that though.
They all moved back to Britain shortly before or shortly after 1910. JRR Tolkien's story was pretty typical of British settlers in South Africa.
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Vasall des Midas
Lewis Trondheim
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #17 on:
January 17, 2009, 01:48:44 pm »
There are a lot of Anglos among the Whites (no majority, but still).
It's just that all of them (and most Afrikaners too) live in a handful of cities. The Afrikaans you see on the map is Coloreds, not Afrikaners.
And
that
is why there's no English on the map.
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Quote from: True Federalist on April 28, 2013, 01:25:07 am
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PASOK Leader Hashemite
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Re: South African Demographic Maps
«
Reply #18 on:
February 01, 2009, 07:25:55 am »
More maps!
Sex Ratio
Dwelling type
WC Language
WC ethnic group
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