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Author Topic: Obama picks Rick Warren for inaugural invocation, gay leaders furious  (Read 11131 times)
Keystone Phil
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2008, 04:16:05 pm »
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He picked the wrong Rick.  Wink
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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2008, 04:20:08 pm »
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Politico seems to have a real hard-on against Obama as of late. This is their, what, third article accusing him of some insidious move against some group?
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« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2008, 04:21:24 pm »
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a real hard-on against

That's a really odd metaphor Tongue
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« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2008, 04:21:58 pm »
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a real hard-on against

That's a really odd metaphor Tongue

It was pretty much intended. Cheesy
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Life is change --
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I've seen their ways
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New worlds to gain
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- Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"

The right to die in Iraq was a right not previously possessed by Americans for twelve long years.  Bush rectified that.
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« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2008, 04:23:07 pm »
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Besides, isn't the entirety of Obama's argument for Rev. Wright that you're not responsible for everything your priest says?

If it was it wouldn't make much sense as neither Wright or Warren is a priest.
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« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2008, 04:24:56 pm »
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Besides, isn't the entirety of Obama's argument for Rev. Wright that you're not responsible for everything your priest says?

If it was it wouldn't make much sense as neither Wright or Warren is a priest.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/technicality
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« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2008, 07:18:56 pm »
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This is a non-issue to me.
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« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2008, 07:53:27 pm »
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As an Evangelical Obama Supporter in the 2008 Election, I am delighted by this pick.  The pick of Rick Warren himself doesn't have much long-term impact, but it goes along with his theme of largely centrist or center-right Cabinet appointments.  Name me one far, far left person in his Cabinet?  If there are any, they're not in the most important offices.  He even has at least three Republicans in his Cabinet with Bob Gates, Jim Jones, and the guy he just named (can't remember name or post).  The most liberal member of his Cabinet thus far is probably Bill Richardson and I consider him to be more a center-left politician rather than a far-left politician.  New Mexico has just as many Republicans as it does Democrats which is why its been close one way or the other the past three cycles.
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My earlier comment notwithstanding, I do think that the site would be better off if Inks left his position. (The fact that the village idiot has dropped in to express his support for him only confirms this.)
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2008, 07:56:44 pm »
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Barack Obama’s choice of a prominent evangelical minister to perform the invocation at his inauguration is a conciliatory gesture toward social conservatives who opposed him in November, but it is drawing fierce challenges from a gay rights movement that – in the wake of a gay marriage ban in California – is looking for a fight.

Rick Warren, the senior pastor of Saddleback Church in southern California, opposes abortion rights but has taken more liberal stances on the government role in fighting poverty, and backed away from other evangelicals’ staunch support for economic conservatism. But it’s his support for the California constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage that drew the most heated criticism from Democrats Wednesday.

“Your invitation to Reverend Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at your inauguration is a genuine blow to LGBT Americans,” the president of Human Rights Campaign, Joe Solomonese, wrote Obama Wednesday. “[W]e feel a deep level of disrespect when one of architects and promoters of an anti-gay agenda is given the prominence and the pulpit of your historic nomination.”

The rapid, angry reaction from a range of gay activists comes as the gay rights movement looks for an opportunity to flex its political muscle. Last summer gay groups complained, but were rebuffed by Obama, when an “ex-gay” singer led Obama’s rallies in South Carolina. And many were shocked last month when voters approved the California ban.

“There is a lot of energy and there’s a lot of anger and I think people are wanting to direct it somewhere,” Solomonese told Politico.

The selection of Warren to preside at the inauguration is not a surprise move, but it is a mirror image of President Bill Clinton’s early struggles with issues of gay rights. Obama has worked, and at times succeeded, to bridge the gap between Democrats and evangelical Christians, who form a solid section of the Republican base.

Obama opposes same-sex marriage, but also opposed the California constitutional amendment Warren backed. In selecting Warren, he is choosing to reach out to conservatives on a hot-button social issue, at the cost of antagonizing gay voters who overwhelmingly supported him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16693.html


Did people honestly expect him to be a social liberal, when the first half of his campaign consisted of not even running on issues and the second half of the campaign consisted entirely of casting himself as this combination of FDR, JFK and the magical easter bunny, with not a hyde or hair talk of any divisive cultural issue. He didn't win the election by catering to social liberals and he won't win a second term doing it either, and this guy seems to me like the kind of guy who wants a 49 state landslide in 2012. (I won't say 50 because Utah is just out of reach)
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« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2008, 12:05:02 am »
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As an Evangelical Obama Supporter in the 2008 Election, I am delighted by this pick.  The pick of Rick Warren himself doesn't have much long-term impact, but it goes along with his theme of largely centrist or center-right Cabinet appointments.  Name me one far, far left person in his Cabinet?  If there are any, they're not in the most important offices.  He even has at least three Republicans in his Cabinet with Bob Gates, Jim Jones, and the guy he just named (can't remember name or post).  The most liberal member of his Cabinet thus far is probably Bill Richardson and I consider him to be more a center-left politician rather than a far-left politician.  New Mexico has just as many Republicans as it does Democrats which is why its been close one way or the other the past three cycles.

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« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2008, 06:08:06 pm »
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As an Evangelical Obama Supporter in the 2008 Election, I am delighted by this pick.  The pick of Rick Warren himself doesn't have much long-term impact, but it goes along with his theme of largely centrist or center-right Cabinet appointments.  Name me one far, far left person in his Cabinet?  If there are any, they're not in the most important offices.  He even has at least three Republicans in his Cabinet with Bob Gates, Jim Jones, and the guy he just named (can't remember name or post).  The most liberal member of his Cabinet thus far is probably Bill Richardson and I consider him to be more a center-left politician rather than a far-left politician.  New Mexico has just as many Republicans as it does Democrats which is why its been close one way or the other the past three cycles.

Ray LaHood

I guess he could be liberal, i just don't know much about him.  The most liberal members of the Cabinet that I recognize are Tom Daschle and Bill Richardson and even they're not extremely liberal.  To me, they're just progressive,  not really liberal.
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My earlier comment notwithstanding, I do think that the site would be better off if Inks left his position. (The fact that the village idiot has dropped in to express his support for him only confirms this.)
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« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2008, 07:43:14 pm »
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Barack Obama’s choice of a prominent evangelical minister to perform the invocation at his inauguration is a conciliatory gesture toward social conservatives who opposed him in November, but it is drawing fierce challenges from a gay rights movement that – in the wake of a gay marriage ban in California – is looking for a fight.

Rick Warren, the senior pastor of Saddleback Church in southern California, opposes abortion rights but has taken more liberal stances on the government role in fighting poverty, and backed away from other evangelicals’ staunch support for economic conservatism. But it’s his support for the California constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage that drew the most heated criticism from Democrats Wednesday.

“Your invitation to Reverend Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at your inauguration is a genuine blow to LGBT Americans,” the president of Human Rights Campaign, Joe Solomonese, wrote Obama Wednesday. “[W]e feel a deep level of disrespect when one of architects and promoters of an anti-gay agenda is given the prominence and the pulpit of your historic nomination.”

The rapid, angry reaction from a range of gay activists comes as the gay rights movement looks for an opportunity to flex its political muscle. Last summer gay groups complained, but were rebuffed by Obama, when an “ex-gay” singer led Obama’s rallies in South Carolina. And many were shocked last month when voters approved the California ban.

“There is a lot of energy and there’s a lot of anger and I think people are wanting to direct it somewhere,” Solomonese told Politico.

The selection of Warren to preside at the inauguration is not a surprise move, but it is a mirror image of President Bill Clinton’s early struggles with issues of gay rights. Obama has worked, and at times succeeded, to bridge the gap between Democrats and evangelical Christians, who form a solid section of the Republican base.

Obama opposes same-sex marriage, but also opposed the California constitutional amendment Warren backed. In selecting Warren, he is choosing to reach out to conservatives on a hot-button social issue, at the cost of antagonizing gay voters who overwhelmingly supported him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16693.html


Did people honestly expect him to be a social liberal, when the first half of his campaign consisted of not even running on issues and the second half of the campaign consisted entirely of casting himself as this combination of FDR, JFK and the magical easter bunny, with not a hyde or hair talk of any divisive cultural issue. He didn't win the election by catering to social liberals and he won't win a second term doing it either, and this guy seems to me like the kind of guy who wants a 49 state landslide in 2012. (I won't say 50 because Utah is just out of reach)

Utah was only the 3rd most Republican state in the country this time around Tongue
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« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2008, 09:04:04 pm »
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this is such a bulls@#t issue, what difference dose it make if obama has rev Warren say a prayer at his inaugural address. for some reason this reminds me of something "I herd Chris rock said that the only thing that pisses him off more then racism is people who are still surprised by racism" unfortunately,  we still live in a homophobic society and obama is a politician he has to reach out too conservative religious figures even ones that are homophobic . he has to let conservative Americans know that even if he doesn't always agree will at least listen too them.  president obama for the most part except when it comes to the issue of gay marriage is a supporter of gay rights much  more of a supporter then Pres Bush. I hope Gays and lesbians realize that. 

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« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2008, 11:53:00 pm »
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Even though I disagree with Rick Warren on many issues, I'm actually glad that Obama invited him to give the invocation at his inauguration, as it symbolizes the hope that we can all find common ground and work together despite our differences. In this way it represents a break with the rancor, bitterness, and polarization of the Clinton-Bush years.
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« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2008, 11:59:34 pm »
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Excellent pick.

Check out Obama's Stadium Speech.  Read it.  He's doing exactly what he said he would do.  I've never seen people more upset at a winning candidate filling his campaign promises, from cabinet positions to this. 

PS.  I'm thrilled about Ron Kirk for Trade Rep.  He's never known a trade deal he didn't like.  Smiley
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« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2008, 02:28:31 am »
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I have no problem with Warren doing the invocation. I disagree with him on a hell of a lot, not the least of which is gay marriage, but so long as he doesn't go on a huge anti-gay tirade during the invocation I have no problem.
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« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2008, 02:37:39 am »
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Well, so far I feel vindicated.
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« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2008, 02:43:17 am »
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Rick Warren is definitely a horrible person, but other recent picks by Obama are more troubling seeing as they'll be doing more than leading some dumb prayer.
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2008, 04:38:07 am »
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Personally as an Athiest, I oppose any mixture of church and state. I do believe that unfortunately it will be a long time before my religious beliefs are respected by a majority of the population.

However Rick Warren is actually much more progressive than many of the previous speakers selected to offer the inauguration prayer. I fully understand some of the pain members of the LGBT community must be feeling as a result of Warren's unfortunate statements defending traditional marriage by stating that gay marraiges were almost an equivalent of incent and child abuse. Warren definitely mispoke, and unlike almost all leaders of the evangelical community in the past 20 years does have gay friends and acquaintances and does not "damn people to hell" like many of the fundamentalist preachers of old.

Obama is as fully committed to the cause of gay rights as Clinton, and hopefully this is some strategic posturing that will allow segments of the evangelical community to not challenge a repeal of don't ask don't tell, and maybe make civil unions a nationally protected right. I have no opposition to gay marriages whatsoever, but it will take a generation before we are able to consistenly make gains at the polls against anti- gay marriage ballot iniatives.
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« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2008, 04:40:20 am »
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Obama is as fully committed to the cause of gay rights as Clinton

Not true, Clinton backstabbed gay activists with Don't Ask Don't Tell while Obama appears willing to overturn it as soon as this economic stuff is out of the way (not immediately, but second term?).  I fully expect it to be overturned eventually although not immediately, but the fact that  Obama wants to focus his political capital on not passing anti-gay measures at the moment makes him superior to Clinton
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« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2008, 04:54:24 am »
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Obama is as fully committed to the cause of gay rights as Clinton

Not true, Clinton backstabbed gay activists with Don't Ask Don't Tell while Obama appears willing to overturn it as soon as this economic stuff is out of the way (not immediately, but second term?).  I fully expect it to be overturned eventually although not immediately, but the fact that  Obama wants to focus his political capital on not passing anti-gay measures at the moment makes him superior to Clinton

Interesting observation..... I don't believe that was Clinton's intent, but rather he had overreached and underestimated the backlash amongst the top brass, as well as many Christians who voted for him from different regions.

Personally, there is no question that Clinton had gay friends and was deeply sympathetic towards advancing equal rights for gays. Obama could easily repeal "don't ask don't tell" without any significant loss of political capitol (including my dad who is an evangelical Chritain living in OC who voted for Obama and against Prop Cool.  Not sure why the cool sunglasses icon comes on, I am an Athiest and in favor of gay marriage so please don't get the wrong idea.   Smiley
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« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2008, 05:04:41 am »
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Well, Obama's PR people have indicated they aren't immediately interested in repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell and would prefer to repeal it later on in his term.  His campaign position was that he'd repeal the very law that Bill Clinton supported...

of course his campaign never provided a timeframe.
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« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2008, 05:08:29 am »
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Well, Obama's PR people have indicated they aren't immediately interested in repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell and would prefer to repeal it later on in his term.  His campaign position was that he'd repeal the very law that Bill Clinton supported...

of course his campaign never provided a timeframe.

I hope he does it within the first year..... This may be a unique opportunity while the nation is still in two major wars to throw this issue of patriotism in front of the American public and dare the religious right to challenge it. How can one challenge the rights of LGBT Americans to fight in service of the country openly and without shame?
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« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2008, 06:06:26 am »
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However Rick Warren is actually much more progressive than many of the previous speakers selected to offer the inauguration prayer. I fully understand some of the pain members of the LGBT community must be feeling as a result of Warren's unfortunate statements defending traditional marriage by stating that gay marraiges were almost an equivalent of incent and child abuse. Warren definitely mispoke, and unlike almost all leaders of the evangelical community in the past 20 years does have gay friends and acquaintances and does not "damn people to hell" like many of the fundamentalist preachers of old.

I have to say, his moderate myth certainly has gone far if it's gotten "Progressive" Atheists to buy into it. As the head of Americans United for Seperation of Church & State said "Warren is Jerry Falwell in a Hawaiian shirt."

The only thing he is more moderate over is treatment for AIDs and a variety of other diseases and supports more anti-poverty efforts. Other than that, he's your average evangelist, there's nothing special or moderate about this man from everything that I've seen and read of him and his church. (Did you know he supports programs to "cure" people of homosexuality and his church explicitly and clearly bans gays and lesbians from membership? Oh yeah, that's "more progressive.)

As for the misspeaking BS, he very clearly said it and repeated it was some sort of abnormal behavior in a variety of other interviews. He explained his position on marriage saying "I am opposed to a brother and sister being together and calling that a marriage, I am opposed to multiple people getting together and calling that a marriage, I am opposed to a man and a child getting together and calling that a marriage," in comparison to gay marriage, and when asked to clarify, "Do you think those are equivalent to gays getting married?" he very clearly and very openly and honestly replied. "Oh I do!"

This guy sickens me, his church sickens me, everyone who thinks he's some sort of progressive evangelist sickens me, and Obama sickens me for not taking a stand on anything.
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« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2008, 10:02:08 am »
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Well, so far I feel vindicated.

Too bad McCain isn't being inaugurated, then you could have Hagee doing it!
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