The South

[Neinrein]

I registered for this site solely because I came across this thread when looking for news stories about if Obama still hadn't hired a Southerner for his cabinet.


The amount of hatred and vitriol that I saw spewed made me want to call my cousin who is serving in Iraq and tell him to go AWOL because apparently, his fellow countrymen have all sorts of nice things to say about him just because of where he is from


My main point is, i want to set the record straight on some of the obvious trash that I saw posted on here.


First, to the person who said that Alabama and Mississippi were trashholes and then proceeded to say that "we need more Katrinas".....I am from Biloxi, Mississippi. I lost my home in Hurricane Katrina, I saw my neighborhood wiped from the face of the earth, and I have attended funerals for people whose bodies still have not been found. With all due respect, if you honestly believe that, then there is a warm place that you ought to go to. All I'm gonna say about that


To the person who made the comment about how "Maryland can't be Southern because it's Catholic". Maryland actually was a Southern state until about 30 years ago, and it only ceased being southern because of the growth in the Washington DC area which of course, filled those suburbs with a demographic. All you need to know is, Wallace won the 1972 Democratic primary in Maryland. In fact, that's where he was shot as I recall.


And to address your argument, the following cities in the South outside of Louisiana are known for having Catholic pluralities (in many cases, outright majorities) among the white populations:

Corpus Christi, Texas
Beaumont, Texas
Port Arthur, Texas
Orange, Texas
Lake Charles, Louisiana
Lafayette, Louisiana
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Houma, Louisiana
New Orleans, Louisiana
Natchez, Mississippi
Bay St. Louis, Mississippi
Gulfport, Mississippi
Biloxi, Mississippi
Pascagoula, Mississippi
Mobile, Alabama
Pensacola, Florida


In addition to that, I can tell you certainly that Evangelical Christians, or Baptists, as you so casually referred to them do not make up a majority, or even a plurality, among the white population of Charleston, South Carolina, and Savannah, Georgia is well known for having a large Irish Catholic community, and hosts the 2nd largest St. Patrick's Day Parade in the country.


Of the cities in the list, all but one I think celebrate Mardi Gras, which is a French Catholic holiday, and which in most of these cities, serves as the height of the debutante social season.


I personally, am from Biloxi, Mississippi, where the population consists of the following: Vietnamese immigrants who have come to work on the boats, black people, though of major Mississippi cities, Biloxi is by far the whitest. Consists of the descendants of the French and Spanish immigrants that came here during the colonial period of the 1700s, but the majority of Biloxi residents, will trace their ancestors to immigrants who came here about 100 years ago to work in canneries. The Cajuns and the Croatians. And I have descent from both original Biloxi stock, and immigrant cannery stock.

And I'll go ahead and say that Louisiana the state (and Biloxi's culture is more Louisiana than Mississippi), has a Catholic plurality among the white population. Are you honestly going to suggest that Louisiana is not Southern


Before you start stereotyping the South spend time here


Now as for the comment about the South not having industry......Really never have been down here have you. Louisiana is pretty much a one industry state, that industry being petrochemicals. Birmingham was once called the Pittsburgh of the South, and before steel collapsed, Birmingham was one of the most unionized cities in America, with a unionization rate as high as the state of West Virginia. The textile industry employed people all across the region, and when I was a kid, Pascagoula was very much a unionized town. Unions have died there like they have elsewhere, but they still have some pull. But of course, all of our industry collapsed because of industrial non-attainment lists and free trade, no different than the rest of America.

And the most unionized state in the country is geographically a Southern state, that state being West by God Virginia.


As for the remarks of "Republicanism"....also shows you've spent no time down here. Since Reconstruction, the governments of Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas and Alabama have been under Democratic control, and the Democrats currently have a supermajority in the Mississippi House and our next governor will probably be a Democrat, because there is talk of a Mike Moore-Jim Hood super ticket for Gov and Lt. Gov in 2011. I should also point out that right now, we have a Democratic Congressman representing us, like me, he lost his home in the storm.


And if you want to talk about Katrina, if it had hit New York, the response would have been immediate, we had to wait weeks for help because the northerners who ran the government didn't want to help a bunch of Southerners, think about that one


To the person who made the comment about the South taking more money in then it pays out, yeah that's true, totally true. When you are the poorest region of the country and when government money goes to help those in need, it will work out that way. For some reason, I don't think all of the Ivy League richie richs in Connecticut need that money and justice demands they pay more taxes, and if Obama is really serious about helping those in need, the South will be recieving even more in federal funds and paying even less in taxes


What you need to understand about the South is the New Deal philosophy rules. Look at the ideological nature of the Democrats who run the Louisiana legislature. Roosevelt and Truman would be proud. Southerners don't believe in Libertarianism or freedom from the government, in fact, the South is more in favor of big government than any other part of the country, as long as that government respects their culture, and as long as they feel they have a seat at the table. The average Southerner is an economic liberal and a social conservative, and every time at national election time, they are asked to choose economics or values. The state parties don't ask them to make that choice and so the Democrats still dominate in those offices.


The problem we have in this country is that one party is economically liberal, socially libertarian, and one is socially conservative, economically libertarian. The freedom and liberty people used to all be Republicans and the government control people used to all be Democrats, this changed during the culture wars. I feel it needs to go back to that. The shipyard worker in Pascagoula should not be voting Republican, and the Ivy League businessman in Hartford should not be voting Democratic. And all these damn social issues should be left at the state level and let people choose the states they live in. I don't have a problem with gays marrying in Massachusetts and I thought W's gay marriage amendment idea was moronic. At the same time though, I don't want that they can get married in Massachusetts to force us in Mississippi to allow them to marry here.

And if you want to know why Obama won, Obama didn't win because of some big liberal movement in the country. He won because he was the first Democratic candidate in more than a generation (though Clinton partially did this) to not talk about liberal social issues at all. He only talked about the economy and nothing else. Never heard him once say anything about guns, or gays, or abortion out on the trail. It's the economy stupid won the day. McCain lost because he only talked about cultural issues, and without the other side willing to take him up on that front, he looked like a chicken little, and he never had an economic message to fall back on.


I personally think Obama will bring us back to the New Deal style of politics, where it is the government party vs the non-government party, his use of Rick Warren, who is for big government on both the economy and cultural issues, seems to suggest this. Also, the simple fact is, if the moderates gain control of the GOP, and start only talking about Republican economics, their votes are going to fall off in the South so fast, because Southerners don't fundamentally believe in that. They believe that the government has every right to regulate how the economy goes, but also how one lives their lives. But, for Southerners, values will usually win out over economics unless it is desperation time. I'll concede Obama had problems because of race, he lost counties and parishes that Dukakis and Kerry had won.


However, if Obama governs from the center-left economically, and the center-right socially, I can see him winning a majority of Southern states in 2012, because if he does that and the GOP goes with a social moderate, economic conservative, that combination equals Democratic victory in the South, always has.


And finally, Obama does need a Southerner in the cabinet, because every part of the country deserves to be represented, and no, Hillary doesn't count, the lady who spent more time in Jersey doesn't count, and Gates doesnt count. He needs someone from the Deep South in his cabinet, and there are a few he could pick from. Sam Nunn especially.


So please, be respectful towards the South, and don't start shooting off about it unless you know the truth

[Marokai Backbeat]

Uh; No. The South doesn't deserve any respect for me and nor does Southern culture. They've fought every social change tooth and nail and are doing it again. Such medieval views deserve nothing but disrespect.

And flying around the Confederate flag is borderline treasonous in my book.

[ChrisFromNJ]

Cliff  notes?

[Lunar]

(kind of read that).

Uh, I think some people get off on bashing groups of people who don't vote how they like.  The Southern thread was kinda ridic but people on the internet in general are more than ridic.  Hopefully some of it was just trying to appear trendy and anti-whatever, like when GOPers go to town on France.

But yeah, people are stupid and operate based on stereotypes, who'dathunk

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'm from Charleston, South Carolina, and I agree that the blind hatred towards the south on this forum is pretty disgusting, most by people whom have never even traveled to any of the places they dump on. It's alright though. Most people who have that kind of hatred towards a place have much bigger issues in their lives. You must learn to ignore the ignorance by many of the members. This site is full of them.

[Scam of God]

If the South doesn't want to surrender its worthless culture in exchange for aid from Northern liberals, then by God it ought not receive any help at all. You can want in one hand and sh*t in the other for all I care.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I've never been to a "real" southern area in my life. I've been to the tourist parts of Florida and northern Virginia, neither of which is culturally southern (NO BENCONSTINE ARLINGTON IS NOT THE SOUTH YOU ARE NOT A SOUTHERNOR GET OVER IT.) Indianapolis is probably the most "southern" city I've been to. I'm quite happy of this. The only thing I'd drive into a real southern place to do is burn a Confederate flag.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Thank you.

And yes, BRTD, I am Southern.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Uh; No. The South doesn't deserve any respect for me and nor does Southern culture. They've fought every social change tooth and nail and are doing it again. Such medieval views deserve nothing but disrespect.

And flying around the Confederate flag is borderline treasonous in my book.

Because many people refuse to conform to your world view means that they deserve no respect? I probably agree with your views on most social issues, but looking down on others who disagree with that "holier than thou" attitude is pretty disgusting in my book. I can't stand people like that.

[Scam of God]

And these are the morons who whine and cry and piss and moan about 'socialism'.

Let's look at the number of Southerners who have been President in the last forty years:

Lyndon Johnson
Jimmy Carter
G.H.W. Bush (debatable)
Bill Clinton
George W. Bush

vs.

Richard Nixon
Gerald Ford
Ronald Reagan

No more Affirmative-Action for Scots-Irish trash. Let them earn it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Thank you.

And yes, BRTD, I am Southern.

Even the OP is saying that the DC suburbs are not southern. It basically argues Maryland was until they took over. If the Maryland side isn't, why is the Virginia side?

And you even admitted yourself you don't have a southern accent. You're a Jewish kid from suburban DC, no more southern than a Jewish kid in New Jersey or Westchester, New York.

[Lunar]

Did the meaning of socialism change and why didn't I get the memo?

Also note that Obama won 5 out of the bottom 7.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Uh; No. The South doesn't deserve any respect for me and nor does Southern culture. They've fought every social change tooth and nail and are doing it again. Such medieval views deserve nothing but disrespect.

And flying around the Confederate flag is borderline treasonous in my book.

Because many people refuse to conform to your world view means that they deserve no respect? I probably agree with your views on most social issues, but looking down on others who disagree with that "holier than thou" attitude is pretty disgusting in my book. I can't stand people like that.

And I can't stand people who defend bigots and trash. Southern States are the poorest and have fought every social advancement we've attempted. The South fought women's rights, fought to defend slavery and then fought against african-american rights for decades, and now they're fighting gay rights.

If defending the right of a woman to vote and saying black people shouldn't be slaves makes me holier than thou then holier than thou I am.

[Scam of God]

Also note that Obama won 5 out of the bottom 7.

Also note that he won three of the top seventeen formerly-red states. That doesn't mean anything.

[Neinrein]

A few more things. If you want to talk about tolerance, all you need to know is, in the 1830s, when a Jewish immigrant came to say New York or Boston, they were treated with disdain and disgust, treated like garbage (same for Irish immigrants too).


If that same Jewish immigrant came South and worked hard.....within a decade, he'd be a highly respected member of Southern society. The North never allowed "Judah Benjamin" to be a military commander.

The Jewish communities in most of the Southern ports are as old as the towns themselves, all high society and all have been much more fairly treated than Jews were in all of the tolerant Northern states. The South has actually elected Jewish congressman in areas where Jews are numerically insignificant, and I've never seen that happen up north, and if you are an Italian, as far as I know, the first Italian governor in the country was our very own Governor Longino, who was the first Mississippi governor of the 20th century.

And for those who, only want to "come south to burn a confederate flag" or who have no use for the Southern culture, please abstain from the following:

Mardi Gras, Popeyes, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Hyundai, Saturn, Rock and Roll Music, Jazz Music, Zatarains, Abita Beer, Crawfish, Jumbalaya, Grits, Okra, Barbecue, William Faulkner, and I could go on and on. The culture of this country is indebted to the South.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The culture of this country is indebted to the South.

Which may explain why we're one of the most backward first world nations.

[Lunar]

Yeah, the poorest and richest states vote Democratic.  That's hardly surprising.

Uh; No. The South doesn't deserve any respect for me and nor does Southern culture. They've fought every social change tooth and nail and are doing it again. Such medieval views deserve nothing but disrespect.

And flying around the Confederate flag is borderline treasonous in my book.

Because many people refuse to conform to your world view means that they deserve no respect? I probably agree with your views on most social issues, but looking down on others who disagree with that "holier than thou" attitude is pretty disgusting in my book. I can't stand people like that.

And I can't stand people who defend bigots and trash. Southern States are the poorest and have fought every social advancement we've attempted. The South fought women's rights, fought to defend slavery and then fought against african-american rights for decades, and now they're fighting gay rights.

If defending the right of a woman to vote and saying black people shouldn't be slaves makes me holier than thou then holier than thou I am.

Are you talking about places like this?  The first state to secede?

[Matt Damon™]

My issue with dixie is how they believe in pushing archaic social mores on the rest of the nation and daring to be moralizing about patriotism while they refuse to confront a history of things like the ACW or jim crow.

[humder]

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 You are being a bigot right now. All prejudice is stupid. Not liking somebody because where they are from is like not liking somebody because they were born on a Tuesday. It is true that certain places may have certain trends of people but this does not justify any prejudice. If you want to be liberal, then you have to treat everybody you meet like an individual and not attach labels to them. You attack the south for being prejudice but you are doing it yourself. Being from the south means you are from the south, it does not mean you are racist or whatever.

[Josh/Devilman88]

The south will rise again ... Anyways, the south is a great place.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Uh; No. The South doesn't deserve any respect for me and nor does Southern culture. They've fought every social change tooth and nail and are doing it again. Such medieval views deserve nothing but disrespect.

And flying around the Confederate flag is borderline treasonous in my book.

Because many people refuse to conform to your world view means that they deserve no respect? I probably agree with your views on most social issues, but looking down on others who disagree with that "holier than thou" attitude is pretty disgusting in my book. I can't stand people like that.

And I can't stand people who defend bigots and trash. Southern States are the poorest and have fought every social advancement we've attempted. The South fought women's rights, fought to defend slavery and then fought against african-american rights for decades, and now they're fighting gay rights.

If defending the right of a woman to vote and saying black people shouldn't be slaves makes me holier than thou then holier than thou I am.

Who in the South today is defending such things? The Klan is much more active in your home state of Ohio than anywhere in the south. And the fact that you're from Ohio and claiming that your the epitome of culture is downright hilarious. How many more of your people will move to my city before you've lost enough? I'm not fond of Ohioans moving here anyway. For your information, your precious Northeast treated blacks just as poorly as the south, but they weren't as upfront about it. The problems that have been unloaded on the south exist all over the United States. It is just ignorant to believe they are exclusive to the south. In NOvember, it was CALIFORNIA who voted to preserve marriage. Are they a southern state in your book as well? Is Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, etc... southern states too? If the south is the only region to fight against these things, than this problem should only be confined to this region.

[Neinrein]

And neither of the Bush's are Southerners. Any real Southerner will tell you that they aren't. Just because you move to town doesn't make you one, because if they're counted as Southerners, you'd have to count Hillary too

And to bring up something I left out originally, because someone brought up the Election of 1980. Yeah, Carter lost the South, Carter only won 6 states total. Carter was somewhat of a failure as a President in case anyone forgot


But in most Southern states, Carter's loss margin to Reagan was within a percentage point, and often times, a few thousand votes, and Carter won most of the rural counties, if you dont believe me, look at an election of 1980 county map. What lost him most of the South in that election (and he still held WV and GA) was that voters in the metro areas who had supported him in 1976 turned against him for 1980.

[Scam of God]

If you want to be liberal, then you have to treat everybody you meet like an individual and not attach labels to them.

You're describing libertarianism, buddy, not liberalism, which has always taken humanity as a gestalt.

[Matt Damon™]

Given how the coast from Virginia down to Key west is becoming a more tolerable place, politically and culturally I could easily see myself living there but I could never see myself living in appalachia or the gulf south or black belt though.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

And you even admitted yourself you don't have a southern accent. You're a Jewish kid from suburban DC, no more southern than a Jewish kid in New Jersey or Westchester, New York.

My family has been in Virginia since the 1840's; I am Southern.