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| | |-+  How many fascist Presidents have we had?
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Poll
Question: How many fascist Presidents have we had?
0   -35 (61.4%)
1   -2 (3.5%)
2   -2 (3.5%)
3   -4 (7%)
4   -5 (8.8%)
5   -1 (1.8%)
6   -1 (1.8%)
7   -1 (1.8%)
8   -0 (0%)
9   -0 (0%)
10   -0 (0%)
>10   -6 (10.5%)
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Total Voters: 57

Author Topic: How many fascist Presidents have we had?  (Read 8320 times)
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BRTD
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« on: December 23, 2008, 09:31:28 pm »
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I say four:

John Adams
William McKinley
Woodrow Wilson
George W. Bush

Reagan is borderline but I'll err on the conservative side.
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WillK
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 10:41:38 pm »
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I say four:

John Adams
William McKinley
Woodrow Wilson
George W. Bush

Reagan is borderline but I'll err on the conservative side.

In what way was John Adams a fascist?


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BRTD
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2008, 10:46:03 pm »
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Alien and Sedition Acts
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WillK
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 10:49:51 pm »
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Alien and Sedition Acts

And?   You got to help me out here cause I don't see how that makes him a fascist. 

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WillK
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2008, 11:00:23 pm »
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I say four:

John Adams
William McKinley
Woodrow Wilson
George W. Bush

Reagan is borderline but I'll err on the conservative side.

And while your at it, help me understand why you put McKinely on the list?
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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2008, 11:38:31 pm »
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None.
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2008, 11:48:00 pm »
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I agree with Adams and I add the two men who worked harder to expand their own power and that of the federal government while at the same time dumping on the constitution any chance they got:

Lincoln/FDR
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2008, 12:11:58 am »
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Adams, Alien and Sedition Acts
Lincoln, declaring war on his own country, etc.
McKinley, Phillipines occupation
Roosevelt, consolidation of executive power
Wilson, supression of free speech, imposition of income tax, etc.
Roosevelt, adoption of economic fascism through the New Deal
Truman, nationalizion of the steel mills
Kennedy, theory of service to one's country
Johnson, see Roosevelt and replace New Deal with Great Society
Nixon, need I say more?
Reagan, see Lincoln, but replace Civil War with Drug War
Clinton, see Lincoln, but replace Southerners with Branch Davidians
Bush, need I say more?

13 by my conservative count.
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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2008, 01:39:15 am »
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Alien and Sedition Acts

And?   You got to help me out here cause I don't see how that makes him a fascist. 

Basically the most anti-freedom legislation ever passed in the country. Plus blatantly unconstitutional.

I say four:

John Adams
William McKinley
Woodrow Wilson
George W. Bush

Reagan is borderline but I'll err on the conservative side.

And while your at it, help me understand why you put McKinely on the list?

Brutal imperialist. He occupied the Philippines in a manner blatantly imperialist and basically justified it the same way Tsarist Russia would justify its imperialism and repression.
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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2008, 04:03:23 am »
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Authoritarian ≠ Fascist

thanks.
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At the very least, this turn of events seems to validate my prediction that Americans are ready and willing to fully embrace fascism.
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« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2008, 10:37:45 am »
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Alien and Sedition Acts

And?   You got to help me out here cause I don't see how that makes him a fascist. 

Basically the most anti-freedom legislation ever passed in the country. Plus blatantly unconstitutional.

Hardly. I can think of several more anti-freedom legislative acts. 
And if thats your sole criteria agaisnt Adams, than you ought to include at least Jefferson, Wilson, FDR, and Truman on your list.

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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2008, 11:48:54 am »
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Authoritarian ≠ Fascist

thanks.

^^^^^

Nixon however was the closest.
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2008, 08:47:44 pm »
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I fail to see how Reagan is anywhere near borderline...

and no, I'm not saying this just because I admire him.
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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2008, 11:16:40 pm »
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0

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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2008, 11:24:34 pm »
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None. There is a difference between taking measures to strengthen your office or the nation and serving as an authoritarian leader.

Fascism tends to not allow free and democratic elections in which one loses while holding an iron-clad grip on the running of the nation. I didn't realize the US ever had a dictatorial regime. And before anyone says FDR, he wasn't the sole force. Congress originates laws. That by itself removes the chances of fascism.
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« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2008, 01:33:52 am »
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None. There is a difference between taking measures to strengthen your office or the nation and serving as an authoritarian leader.

Fascism tends to not allow free and democratic elections in which one loses while holding an iron-clad grip on the running of the nation. I didn't realize the US ever had a dictatorial regime. And before anyone says FDR, he wasn't the sole force. Congress originates laws. That by itself removes the chances of fascism.

You'd have a tough time finding any type of authoritarian regime out there that doesn't have some sort of "legislature" that rubber-stamps the dictator's decrees.
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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2008, 01:52:49 pm »
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FDR would be the closest, if not really a doctrinaire fascist.
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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2008, 03:05:23 pm »
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By the narrow, forgotten definition, only Andrew Jackson.
By a wider definition: him, McKinley and Wilson.
By an even wider definition, that mocks the term: well, almost all American presidents, with the doubtfull exception of Harding, Coolidge and Carter.
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2008, 12:28:22 am »
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None but we came close with the business plot in '34.
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100 Shots, 100 Hits
Lu lu la la lu~
On a mouse's eyeball LOCK ON
On your heart LOCK ON!
The man who came from the Island of Snipers
Lu lu, lu lu la la
You better run away
Sniper sniper sniper...
SOOOOGEKIIIINGUUUUU
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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2008, 06:32:39 am »
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How has this ludicrous and completely anachronistic thread ended up in the 'History' forum?
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« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2008, 09:33:26 am »
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42.
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« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2008, 03:21:09 pm »
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The term "fascism" is largely devoid of meaning at this point in history.

Can anyone truly define "fascism"? Are we to understand it as the beliefs layed out in Mussolini's "Fascist Manifesto", or perhaps to take the actions of Mussolini's government and then call that fascism? Is it the Nazi government we should look to for a definition, or maybe Generalissimo Franco's rule of Spain? Should we turn to Political Scientists' essays?

I doubt there's really any way to define Fascism that wouldn't in practice incorporate a broad swathe of dictatorships that have existed in the last 200 years.
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Israel and the United States "killing dozens of civilians with explosives", as you phrase it, has, throughout history, almost always been a good thing.
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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2008, 11:20:22 pm »
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O.
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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2008, 12:29:39 pm »
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FDR would be the closest, if not really a doctrinaire fascist.
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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2008, 09:02:12 pm »
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Can anyone truly define "fascism"?


Of course. And plenty of people have done so. That doesn't mean that everyone will agree, of course.
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