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Author Topic: Karma  (Read 8238 times)
RG Fritz
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« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2004, 10:12:34 am »
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Dave,

Nomo has taken it apon himself to start another 50 topics just this morning.  Since we no longer have the Karma power and we know that Nomo is a commited liar, I ask that you please do something about it.

I think you exaggerate the number of topics started by nomorelies today, I have seen maybe 5.  While his posts are inflammatory, emotional, and politically biased, I see no examples of outright lying as you have alleged.  (Edit: ok, I've seen a couple of posts where he has admitted to lying, so maybe I'm wrong about this.)  He has consistently been repeating one question (name a liberal who has spent more than Bush) and not getting answered.  The lack of any intelligent response to this question reinforces his point, troll or not.

If nomorelies has committed bannable offenses here, I contend that Philip is guilty of the same offenses and must also be banned.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 10:44:33 am by Fritz »Logged

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« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2004, 12:03:09 pm »
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The thing is that Nomo's posts by themselves are, while annoying, not bannable offenses.  The problem is that he continues to post basically the same nonsense over and over again, regardless of his credibility or the logic of his statements.  When it's one post about why "Republicans live in Fantasy Land," you can just ignore it.  When he continues to post this in slightly different forms over and over again, it becomes a real problem.
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Mr. Fresh
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« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2004, 12:14:01 pm »
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Spam can most certainly be a bannable offense.  Though I don't think Nomo has reached that point yet.
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2004, 12:59:39 pm »
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I don't believe that this karma system is usefull.  Many good members have got negative points! I would like to know who has given them to them.

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In New York for the purpose of Fantasy Elections.
Mr. Fresh
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« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2004, 01:53:18 pm »
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I don't believe that this karma system is usefull.  Many good members have got negative points! I would like to know who has given them to them.

That's the only way to do it actually, if/when the points are awarded, a justification is provided.
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« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2004, 03:59:43 pm »
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What complaints have you heard against me, Dave? I'm just curious.
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A18
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« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2004, 04:06:25 pm »
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If nomorelies has committed bannable offenses here, I contend that Philip is guilty of the same offenses and must also be banned.

Like...?
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2004, 04:07:03 pm »
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Dave,

Nomo has taken it apon himself to start another 50 topics just this morning.  Since we no longer have the Karma power and we know that Nomo is a commited liar, I ask that you please do something about it.

I think you exaggerate the number of topics started by nomorelies today, I have seen maybe 5.  While his posts are inflammatory, emotional, and politically biased, I see no examples of outright lying as you have alleged.  (Edit: ok, I've seen a couple of posts where he has admitted to lying, so maybe I'm wrong about this.)  He has consistently been repeating one question (name a liberal who has spent more than Bush) and not getting answered.  The lack of any intelligent response to this question reinforces his point, troll or not.

If nomorelies has committed bannable offenses here, I contend that Philip is guilty of the same offenses and must also be banned.


Fritz- nomorelies IS a liar. That is not in question. Whether Philip is as big a pain is a very good point. Both are capable of quality posts but both begin too many threads (in my opinion) and both often have a very hard edge. I hope Dave gives them both a warning (like he did to bandit73) and then we'll see if they improve. If not, then let the chips fall where they may.

Nomo, unlike Phil, has violated the rules of the forum.  He has signed on as multiple users... unless there are several people from different states who happen to have the same IP adress.  Along with the rest of his behavior, including his habit of compulsive lying, this should disclude him from membership.
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« Reply #58 on: September 27, 2004, 04:17:01 pm »
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Quote
Whether Philip is as big a pain is a very good point. Both are capable of quality posts but both begin too many threads (in my opinion) and both often have a very hard edge.

Yeah. About DIFFERENT subjects.

How do I have a hard edge? At all?
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Brambila
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« Reply #59 on: September 27, 2004, 04:30:50 pm »
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Jmfcst is KARMA? How did THAT happen?

Supersoulty, allowing Karma isn't going to suddenly stop Nomo from posting.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2004, 04:50:57 pm »
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Jmfcst is KARMA? How did THAT happen?

Supersoulty, allowing Karma isn't going to suddenly stop Nomo from posting.

No, but it could help Dave notice, if he hasn't already.  I'm starting to wonder if Dave knows Nomo personally or something, because we threw NixonNow out for far less non-sense than we are putting up with from Nomo.
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tweed
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« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2004, 05:55:20 pm »
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Jmfcst is KARMA? How did THAT happen?

Supersoulty, allowing Karma isn't going to suddenly stop Nomo from posting.

No, but it could help Dave notice, if he hasn't already.  I'm starting to wonder if Dave knows Nomo personally or something, because we threw NixonNow out for far less non-sense than we are putting up with from Nomo.

NixonNow wasn't thrown out, he left on his own accord.  Granted, he was ridiculed severely by other members, but so has Nomo.

As far as I know, Dave has not banned a member (except for totallyfabgayboi months and months ago.)
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Niles Caulder
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« Reply #62 on: September 27, 2004, 06:23:57 pm »
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Well, I believe this was a correct discussion to have prior to proceeding with the tornado of point allocation.  The semantic problem around the word "troll" becomes much more important, and much more important to resolve.

NixonNow chooses to remove himself from a forum with a hefty plurality that's vocally fed up with him before nomorelies does...ergo the forum administrator favors nomorelies?  This is not logical reasoning.

Here's my own experience of the line:

Bramballa stirred me up with his string of anti-Muslim threads--enough to where I question my own wisdom in having gotten so agitated as to even respond to it.  He argued the perspective of a passionate zealot.  He failed to respond to any logical critique directed at his own reasoning, merely heaping more propaganda onto the flame.

Is he a troll?  No, I think he pulled himself back from the line.  He proudly "spit upon this religion of peace," but he never explicitly encited people to violence, and managed to eek out a "hate Islam, not Muslims" rhetorical stance by the time all was said and done.  Nausiating, but not quite trollish.  At the end of the day, this is a politics site, and people come here to debate on stuff they're passionate about, and will passionately disagree.

By contrast, a Fantasy citizen that recently blew in and out (whom ILV described as "Niles^2+Republican" Wink ) was Patunia...a one-note Don Quiote championing a poorly-defined cause.  He wasn't all that radical, nor irrational.  He really wasn't all that shrill...but the volume and intensity of his manipulative "issue focus" campaign turned out to be a lazer beam that burned a whole through his own sail.  The increase of the 'irritation factor' he injected into the community was broad, included all ends of the political spectrum, and was so prolific that it bordered on true forum disruption.

I'm not going to say he was a troll.  But he'd have gotten some bad karma points from me.
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Brambila
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« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2004, 09:29:10 pm »
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Niles, I never made one statement that event hinted my hatred towards muslims. I always was attacking Islam, not muslims. I said "I spit on the 'religion of peace'", not "I spit on muslims".

I'm sorry you couldn't come up with a good argument agaisnt my belief, but that doesn't mean you can make up such a fib.
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Niles Caulder
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« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2004, 09:52:14 pm »
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Niles, I never made one statement that event hinted my hatred towards muslims. I always was attacking Islam, not muslims. I said "I spit on the 'religion of peace'", not "I spit on muslims".

I'm sorry you couldn't come up with a good argument agaisnt my belief, but that doesn't mean you can make up such a fib.

I did not quote you as saying "I spit on muslims."  I quoted you as saying exactly what you said.  Forgive my mispelling your screenname, but now that what I wrote before realizing that error is now in question, I need to leave the post unedited so those mildly curious whether you caught me in 'a fib' can confirm the fact that you just didn't read the post carefully before making that accusation.  As for the quality of my argument in opposition to your belief, I leave that up to the readers of that thread to decide for themselves.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 09:53:45 pm by Niles Caulder [GM] »Logged

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Brambila
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« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2004, 03:11:53 pm »
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I really don't care how you spell my screenname, I got the point Wink

My point was to clear up your post, which made is seem as if though I was changing my arguments on the debate, and that I had initially implied that Muslims were the problem. That is absolutely incorrect. I never made such an implication, and I'd like to see evidence that I did.
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Platypus
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« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2004, 07:40:55 pm »
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I think the Karma system is a basically good idea, but I agree that there should be a method for moderators to determine who gave whom karma points, and where. If a poster has an overly significant bias against a party, or gives a poster negative karma every time they posts even if they posted a good and insightful post, their karma ability might need to be stripped.

In the hands of tthose with brains, which in a forum like this is almost everyone, it is a good system to have.
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cwelsch
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« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2004, 11:56:24 pm »
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Considering the times I've been personally accused of:

- smoking pot (I don't)
- being a far-right witch-burner (never attended church regularly in my life)
- loving Michael Moore (I don't, though Canadian Bacon was ok)
- being a closet racist (uhh, nope)
- being a fascist
- being an anarchist
- weakening America
- hating foreigners
- being effeminate and girly
- being a macho chauvinist

And generally all sorts of others things, I understand that a lot of the time it's easy for people to believe their own rhetoric or just get angry at people with different ideas.  I've been falsely accused of many contradictory things by different people, and a lot of the most extreme people I've met on boards truly hate me PERSONALLY despite not really knowing me (though I'm not unique in that).

I think it's valuable to get feedback, I know I like to know honestly if I say stupid things, useful things or detrimental things.  It's nice to have the feedback.  But I think it can also be harmful if people can be anonymously maligned or even thrown out.  So I'd agree, there ought to be some sort of system to check against the negative ratings.

I don't how the system works so I can't make specific suggestions and know they will apply.  If you are capable of manually changing any person's score then you could have every negative vote be explained in a mega-thread listing where and why the negative vote was given - and if no explanation is given the victim could ask to have it removed.  Or maybe there could, as said earlier, some way to send notification of why it was given.

But either way, I don't think karma should have really any compelling influence in banning without numerous reported threads, complaints, etc.  It should just be secondary, like character witness testimony or something.
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #68 on: October 03, 2004, 04:30:51 pm »
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Is the Karma system buried?
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I live in Finland. I vote Conservatives (National Coalition Party) in Finnish elections, but consider myself as moderate Democrat in the USA.

In New York for the purpose of Fantasy Elections.
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