Huntsman and the future of the GOP.

[Landslide Lyndon]

These personalities all relished taking part into the culture wars.
They have the same characteristics and set of policies:

Strident partisanship.
Global warming denial.
Anti-intelectualism.
Pro-life to the extreme (even in cases of rape and incest).
Fervent opposition to gay rights, bordering to hate.
Fervent opposition to immigration reform.

Don't you think that these stances made the republican party as a whole an unacceptable choice to many voters?

[Smash255]

Well the Republicans tried to position McCain as much further to the right on the issue than Obama

How so?

Attacking Obama on his position, trying to get people to believe Obama was in favor of gay marriage.  Obama was against prop 8, McCain was in favor of it.

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Many of the Rockefeller type Republicans are moderate to even liberal on social issues.  Pro-choice, also in regards to the gay marriage issue, just the whole approach many in the GOP have taken (homosexuality is an abomination) doesn't exactly help.  The over the top venom some within the GOP have expressed on immigration issues.  Separation of Church ans state.  Creationism, attacks on Science.  Rockefeller Republicans aren't exactly to keen on mixing religion and policy

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Okay.  You might have a good argument there.  [/quote]

How will the GOP regain in these areas??  And if they can't where can they make the gains to cancel out what they have lost?

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You're right, but they also didn't get there asses kicked in for being "too conservative".

War + Recession + Corruption = disaster

None of those factors are based on conservatism.  The post-Clinton Republicans didn't really govern conservatively, anyway. [/quote]

Many of the areas I mentioned the GOP has lost a ton of ground in are faring off better than most with the economic situation.   In fact every county mentioned with the exception of Mecklenburg the unemployment rate is quite a bit below the national one.  That isn't to say the economy wasn't an issue, but probably as less so than other areas.  Also these are areas which have been trending away from the Republicans prior to the war, economy or corruption being an issue.  They may have helped break the camels back so to speak, but these are all areas in which were sliding away from the GOP for some time.

[paul718]

These personalities all relished taking part into the culture wars.
They have the same characteristics and set of policies:

Strident partisanship.

Rush is a radio commentator.  Sarah Palin was running for Vice-President.  They're supposed to be stridently partisan.  Just like Keith Olbermann and Joe Biden.  
  

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Being opposed to hinderance of economic growth, in reaction to a scientific theory that has yet to be proven, is why the GOP lost?  I, for one, believe in man-made climate change (as do many other Republicans, including those in Congress and our last presidential nominee), but I'm not gonna fault those who remain unconvinced.  

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You're making me not want to take you seriously.

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Social issue.  And did the GOP platform take a stance against abortion resulting from rape/incest?

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Social issue.  And I don't remember Palin or Limbaugh bordering on "hate" of gay people.  

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A belief that laws should be followed?  How extreme!  Besides, Bush and McCain both advocated a plan co-sponsored by Ted Kennedy.  

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No.  Not enough to have made a difference.  

[RIP Robert H Bork]

These personalities all relished taking part into the culture wars.
They have the same characteristics and set of policies:

Strident partisanship.
Global warming denial.
Anti-intelectualism.
Pro-life to the extreme (even in cases of rape and incest).
Fervent opposition to gay rights, bordering to hate.
Fervent opposition to immigration reform.

Don't you think that these stances made the republican party as a whole an unacceptable choice to many voters?

Of course I do not, as you cannot even spell "intelectualism" correctly.

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The Democrats are full of it as well. Try again.

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Of course we deny it, because it does not exist.

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See above. Also, disagreement with a liberal "intellectual" does not equal anti-intellectualism.

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That is not "pro-life to the extreme". A person is "pro-life to the extreme" when he opposes legal abortion when necessary to save the mother's life. Besides, if we did favor abortion in the cases that you mentioned, then you would accuse us of hypocrisy.

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We oppose "gay rights", because there is no such thing. The only "rights" that gays have are the same rights that all other people have.

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Support for immigration "reform" is a codeword for support for illegals.

[paul718]

All of these crucial areas were already trending Democratic.  They were able to continue picking up more & more ground on areas moving in their direction.  The GOP doesn't have that, at least in areas which will help them win anything.  That I think is one of the biggest differences between the Democrats after 04 and the GOP now.  Despite the Dems loses they were picking up ground in important areas, the GOP isn't.

Okay.  You might have a good argument there. 

How will the GOP regain in these areas??  And if they can't where can they make the gains to cancel out what they have lost?

We'll likely never agree on any of the other points we've argued so far.  But I see substance here.  On what issues should the GOP change in order to fight back in the areas you mentioned? 

[Landslide Lyndon]

These personalities all relished taking part into the culture wars.
They have the same characteristics and set of policies:

Strident partisanship.

Rush is a radio commentator.  Sarah Palin was running for Vice-President.  They're supposed to be stridently partisan.  Just like Keith Olbermann and Joe Biden.  
  

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Being opposed to hinderance of economic growth, in reaction to a scientific theory that has yet to be proven, is why the GOP lost?  I, for one, believe in man-made climate change (as do many other Republicans, including those in Congress and our last presidential nominee), but I'm not gonna fault those who remain unconvinced.  

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You're making me not want to take you seriously.

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Social issue.  And did the GOP platform take a stance against abortion resulting from rape/incest?

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Social issue.  And I don't remember Palin or Limbaugh bordering on "hate" of gay people.  

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A belief that laws should be followed?  How extreme!  Besides, Bush and McCain both advocated a plan co-sponsored by Ted Kennedy.  

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No.  Not enough to have made a difference.  

It seems that YOU are joking.
Comparing Biden to Palin is at least comical. I don't remember Biden accusing McCain of ''palling around with terrorists'' or of ''voting against our troops''. (even though technically these accusations wouldn't be false)
And why stating that Republicans have become the party of Anti-intellectualism is unserious?
Please explain.
 
The SOCIAL issues was a big reason of why the GOP lost the suburban vote. If you want to ignore it and pretend it didn't happen then more power to you.  

[Smash255]

All of these crucial areas were already trending Democratic.  They were able to continue picking up more & more ground on areas moving in their direction.  The GOP doesn't have that, at least in areas which will help them win anything.  That I think is one of the biggest differences between the Democrats after 04 and the GOP now.  Despite the Dems loses they were picking up ground in important areas, the GOP isn't.

Okay.  You might have a good argument there. 

How will the GOP regain in these areas??  And if they can't where can they make the gains to cancel out what they have lost?

We'll likely never agree on any of the other points we've argued so far.  But I see substance here.  On what issues should the GOP change in order to fight back in the areas you mentioned? 

They need to drop the over the top rhetoric.  I'm not suggesting that they need to come out and be supporters of gay marriage, but having Focus on the Family types be the spokesman on the issue doesn't help.   Stop fighting any and every environmental advancement.  McCain backed tracked a bit from some of his environmental positions.  They need to stop trying to intertwine religion and Science just because the Science differs from their religious beliefs.  Keep religion out of Science class.  The anti-intellectualism expressed by some in the party doesn't help.  Many of these areas have among the highest education rates in the entire country, having Palin and the ilk rallying basically against intellectualism doesn't help.

[paul718]

It seems that YOU are joking.
Comparing Biden to Palin is at least comical. I don't remember Biden accusing McCain of ''palling around with terrorists'' or of ''voting against our troops''. (even though technically these accusations wouldn't be false)

 

Palin's statements were stupid, but I don't know how they equated to "strident partisanship". 

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I don't understand what you mean by anti-intellectualism.  Please explain.

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I fundamentally disagree with that statement.  I don't have any studies on hand that would show otherwise.  But if you do, by all means, please share.  I base my opinion on the fact that there were non-social issues (economy, Iraq) that dominated the discussion during the campaign.

[paul718]

They need to drop the over the top rhetoric.  I'm not suggesting that they need to come out and be supporters of gay marriage, but having Focus on the Family types be the spokesman on the issue doesn't help.   Stop fighting any and every environmental advancement.  McCain backed tracked a bit from some of his environmental positions.  They need to stop trying to intertwine religion and Science just because the Science differs from their religious beliefs.  Keep religion out of Science class.  The anti-intellectualism expressed by some in the party doesn't help.  Many of these areas have among the highest education rates in the entire country, having Palin and the ilk rallying basically against intellectualism doesn't help.

I wouldn't have a problem with any of that (I actually disagree with the GOP on most non-economic matters, aside from abortion).  I think those suggestions are pretty on point and quite realistic.  My idea of "moderating" was probably a little more extreme than what you were trying to convey, like dropping the pro-life issue or something like that. 

[Smash255]

It seems that YOU are joking.
Comparing Biden to Palin is at least comical. I don't remember Biden accusing McCain of ''palling around with terrorists'' or of ''voting against our troops''. (even though technically these accusations wouldn't be false)

 

Palin's statements were stupid, but I don't know how they equated to "strident partisanship". 

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I don't understand what you mean by anti-intellectualism.  Please explain.

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I fundamentally disagree with that statement.  I don't have any studies on hand that would show otherwise.  But if you do, by all means, please share.  I base my opinion on the fact that there were non-social issues (economy, Iraq) that dominated the discussion during the campaign.

Many of the suburban areas the GOP was losing ground in even prior to Iraq and the economy really being much of an issue.  These areas have been trending away from the GOP for some time.  Also in many of these suburban areas where the GOP has lost a ton of ground on, was in better economic shape than most of the country.  That isn't to say the economy and Iraq didn't play a factor, but the underlying reason in why many of these areas have been trending away from the GOP to begin with is social issues. 

[Smash255]

They need to drop the over the top rhetoric.  I'm not suggesting that they need to come out and be supporters of gay marriage, but having Focus on the Family types be the spokesman on the issue doesn't help.   Stop fighting any and every environmental advancement.  McCain backed tracked a bit from some of his environmental positions.  They need to stop trying to intertwine religion and Science just because the Science differs from their religious beliefs.  Keep religion out of Science class.  The anti-intellectualism expressed by some in the party doesn't help.  Many of these areas have among the highest education rates in the entire country, having Palin and the ilk rallying basically against intellectualism doesn't help.

I wouldn't have a problem with any of that (I actually disagree with the GOP on most non-economic matters, aside from abortion).  I think those suggestions are pretty on point and quite realistic.  My idea of "moderating" was probably a little more extreme than what you were trying to convey, like dropping the pro-life issue or something like that. 

Well that is part of the issue as well.  As far as how they have approached the pro-life issue.  Now that isn't to say they should drop the issue completely.  However, the fact that those who disagree with them on the issue are basically thrown out of the party doesn't do them any good.   They would probably be better off keeping their views on the issue, but being more accepting to those who may disagree with them, and not make it such a focal point of their campaigns.  They aren't going to win back the suburban voters they have lost by making a hard right stance on abortion such a focal point of their campaigns.