Mississippi trying to catch up to the stupidity of Alabama

[dead0man]

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[Lunar]

I just approve of the final sentence "Study hard and keep an open mind"

Everything else about the flaws in the theory should be included by the authors & publisher in the proper chapters.

Mississippi already has the worst education in the country, do we need to bring it down another peg or something with asinine bills like this?  Couldn't they be working on reforming the system instead of worrying about students believing in dangerous "controversial theories" that are a staple in the science community?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     This topic has already been made.

     That aside, I wonder how someone so redneck could survive long enough to get elected to public office. You think he would have stuck a fork in an electric outlet or something & done the children of Mississippi a favor.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I'm for this.  What is wrong with presenting alternatives to "You are a monkey, your life has no value" and then expecting kids to respect one another.

[dead0man]

I'm for this.  What is wrong with presenting alternatives to "You are a monkey, your life has no value" and then expecting kids to respect one another.

Right, that's exactly what science classes teach everywhere but Alabama.

[Lunar]

I don't recall anything in the Theory of Evolution that says humans are monkeys and have no value.

[dead0man]

     This topic has already been made.

As if making fun of the South ever gets old.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I don't recall anything in the Theory of Evolution that says humans are monkeys and have no value.

     Indeed, it says that humans are great apes. Clearly they must have value to have the adjective "great" attached to them.

     This topic has already been made.

As if making fun of the South ever gets old.

     Especially when they bring it on themselves.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I don't recall anything in the Theory of Evolution that says humans are monkeys and have no value.

Which would give you greater self-esteem and respect for one another:

1. You are, at best, a cosmic accident and evolved from something that you can go see at the zoo.  Survival of the fittest is in effect, kill or be killed out there.

2. You are a unique creation of an almighty God who loves you and every other person around you.  Love thy neighbor as God as made all people equal.

[dead0man]

..and you really think they should be teaching the second in school?

[Lunar]

I don't recall anything in the Theory of Evolution that says humans are monkeys and have no value.

Which would give you greater self-esteem and respect for one another:

1. You are, at best, a cosmic accident and evolved from something that you can go see at the zoo.  Survival of the fittest is in effect, kill or be killed out there.

2. You are a unique creation of an almighty God who loves you and every other person around you.  Love thy neighbor as God as made all people equal.

A.  There is no conflict between believing you a product of God and believing in evolution.  You can still believe you were intentionally born with a purpose and that humans have an elevated status, while still believing that natural selection produced us.

B.  I don't think there are any particular ethical prescriptions provided for humans from #A.  "Be or be killed" applies to the animal world while it's particularly obvious that that is not the case for Mississippi.  I don't think the textbooks are teaching social darwinism like you're pretending they do or that in any way anyone would read them as suggesting to kill your weaker classmates.

C.  I think there's something beautiful about us being a cosmic accident, I respect that more than some God creating humanity and
 
D.  Well, if the science doesn't support it, should we be teaching kids pseudo-lies just to ensure social harmony?  That sounds dictatorial to have politicians with no scientific background to be dictating what's in our science class in order to promote cohesion?  How about we just teach all of our kids that Obama is God so that they don't try and throw a revolution?

I suppose we should just forget about science and just replace it with Bible Studies, this conversation is stupid and you're using stupid strawman arguments

[Padfoot]

I don't recall anything in the Theory of Evolution that says humans are monkeys and have no value.

Which would give you greater self-esteem and respect for one another:

1. You are, at best, a cosmic accident and evolved from something that you can go see at the zoo.  Survival of the fittest is in effect, kill or be killed out there.

2. You are a unique creation of an almighty God who loves you and every other person around you.  Love thy neighbor as God as made all people equal.

It must be sad for you to look at a rainbow.  I know I'd be depressed if I saw everything in black and white. 

Seriously dude, there are plenty of people out there who see God's hand in evolution.  Not everyone reads the Bible like a history textbook.

Also, there are lots of scientists out there trying to prove that we are NOT a cosmic accident and that life exists elsewhere in the universe.

Bottom line, religion has absolutely no place in a science classroom.  Next they'll be wanting to insert vague references to Jesus into history textbooks.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I express one thought, quoted below:

I'm for this.  What is wrong with presenting alternatives to "You are a monkey, your life has no value" and then expecting kids to respect one another.

...and mass hysteria erupts with people attaching to me all sorts of things I don't believe and in fact staunchly oppose.

If people have a conflict between their faith and what they think science says, most will choose faith.

I was in a college class discussing this the other day and was the lone voice for God-inspired evolution.  Everyone else thought that God created the Earth via supernatural processes and that Evolution was made-up and contrary to their faith, and thus Evolution must be wrong.  And please put away your stereotypes, bear in mind that I was probably the only McCain supporter in the group.

I simply do not see what is wrong with presenting an alternative viewpoint that might inspire enough doubt to allow a student to not tune-out what they are hearing in science class.  If a student believes that what they are hearing in class is compatible with their faith, they are much more likely to take an interest in it.

It must be sad for you to look at a rainbow. 

Only because I love rain and the rainbow means the rain has come to an end.

Bottom line, religion has absolutely no place in a science classroom.  Next they'll be wanting to insert vague references to Jesus into history textbooks.

If you lock religion totally out of science classrooms, then don't be surprised if science is totally locked out of religion.  What we need is a balance - for science teachers to be able to leave the door open for student's faith, and for religious interests to understand that science is the study of God's creation and to conflict with that study is itself a sin.

I do hope there are more than vague references to Jesus in history textbooks, given that Jesus was a rather major historical figure.

[Aizen]

Just another reason to be thankful that I don't live in the South.

[Alcon]

I simply do not see what is wrong with presenting an alternative viewpoint that might inspire enough doubt to allow a student to not tune-out what they are hearing in science class.  If a student believes that what they are hearing in class is compatible with their faith, they are much more likely to take an interest in it.

Because, unless it is a result of a scientific process, it has no place in a science classroom.  Hypotheses and theories should get science "coverage" in proportion to how viable they are scientifically.

Central questions:  Why (scientifically) should they be given preference because a lot of people in our culture have faith in them, or are made happy by them?  We shouldn't challenge people's beliefs, because they're going to hold them anyway?  Would you hold that same standard up to a belief that was reactionary and evil, just because people should be allowed to ignore evidence in favor of faith?

Anyway, Don, for someone who is defending an equitable understanding of religion and science, you sure have said some insultingly ridiculous thing about non-believers in this thread.  "You are a monkey, your life has no value"?  Gee, thanks dude.  I'm glad to know that you think my beliefs on morality and life are nihilistic and valueless.  Ugh...

[Smash255]

Don,

While you have always been very partisan you have generally sided with the moderate faction of the GOP & chided the far right for what they have done, how they have chased away moderates from the party, etc.  Well after viewing some of the crap you have spewed in this thread I see you have changed your outlook a bit, the extreme right of the Republican party seems to fit you well as I see you have joined Jim Inhofe and the Science haters.

Anyway, seriously do you ever wonder why the U.S lags behind other countries in Science, and the south is far behind the rest of the country when it comes down to Science.  This utter crap is it. 

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Geez.

I talk about the possibility that evolution might have occurred in a college class and they thought I might as well have been an Atheist from planet Zortron V.

I talk about the possibility that kids should be offered the idea that faith and evolution can go hand-in-hand and I get tarred as an ultra-right-wing Christian super-zealot.

[© tweed]

Geez.

I talk about the possibility that evolution might have occurred in a college class and they thought I might as well have been an Atheist from planet Zortron V.

I talk about the possibility that kids should be offered the idea that faith and evolution can go hand-in-hand and I get tarred as an ultra-right-wing Christian super-zealot.

the "which is prettier?" argument always pisses me off.  just because you like one option better doesn't make it any more than a fairy tale.

[Alcon]

Geez.

I talk about the possibility that evolution might have occurred in a college class and they thought I might as well have been an Atheist from planet Zortron V.

I talk about the possibility that kids should be offered the idea that faith and evolution can go hand-in-hand and I get tarred as an ultra-right-wing Christian super-zealot.

I haven't tarred you as anything, other than someone who mocked others' beliefs while asking for empathy for his own.

I'm not mocking yours.  However, I haven't been presented with an explanation of why unscientific content should be taught in a science class because you find it "prettier," or because a lot of people in our culture believe it.

I have no problem with teaching that science has limitations, and philosophically, science (and our observations) may be flawed.  But what rational justification is there for giving the Christian religion "special treatment" that transcends scientific procedure?  "I wish it were true" and "lots of people believe it" are, as I imagine you'll agree, not good ones.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm for this.  What is wrong with presenting alternatives to "You are a monkey, your life has no value" and then expecting kids to respect one another.

Wow, and after what I inititally thought of you..

[7,052,770]

Honestly, this isn't really going to matter.  You don't really talk about evolution anyway until AP Biology anyway, and they only offer that at the few good high schools, and at those high schools, the students in those classes will just mock the stickers.

Of course it's extremely embarassing that the state would even consider doing this, but it probably won't end up making much of a difference.

[Smash255]

Geez.

I talk about the possibility that evolution might have occurred in a college class and they thought I might as well have been an Atheist from planet Zortron V.

I talk about the possibility that kids should be offered the idea that faith and evolution can go hand-in-hand and I get tarred as an ultra-right-wing Christian super-zealot.

Your little mocking and the  monkey theory was well a bit of the super-zealot type of thinking.  Fact of the matter is we should teach SCIENCE in SCIENCE class.   

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Your little mocking and the  monkey theory was well a bit of the super-zealot type of thinking. 

I have always opposed social darwinism and believe I have stated so in the past.  I fervently believe in Christian social theory as the basic construct of society - Blessed are the meek, Love thy neighbor as thy self, etc.  - even if one does not believe in the religion itself.  I simply do not understand how one can separate the principle of "survival of the fittest" from Evolution, and thus cannot justify its usefulness to humanity.  Knowledge cannot save us, Love can.

If I offended anyone's beliefs I do apologize - this is simply an issue I am quite passionate about.

[Lunar]

Natural Selection =! Social Darwinism

To say otherwise is a severe strawman and a presupposition about the implications of darwinism that is blatantly untrue

read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[Smash255]

Your little mocking and the  monkey theory was well a bit of the super-zealot type of thinking. 

I have always opposed social darwinism and believe I have stated so in the past.  I fervently believe in Christian social theory as the basic construct of society - Blessed are the meek, Love thy neighbor as thy self, etc.  - even if one does not believe in the religion itself.  I simply do not understand how one can separate the principle of "survival of the fittest" from Evolution, and thus cannot justify its usefulness to humanity.  Knowledge cannot save us, Love can.

If I offended anyone's beliefs I do apologize - this is simply an issue I am quite passionate about.

So you would rather YOUR personal beliefs be taught in Science class rather than actual Science?