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Question: Can you be Christian and Favor Death Penalty?
Yes   -25 (58.1%)
No   -18 (41.9%)
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Total Voters: 38

Author Topic: Can you be Christian and Favor Death Penalty?  (Read 3797 times)
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jmfcst
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« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2004, 05:59:06 pm »
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But, jmf, the authorities referred to in all your quotes are non Christian!

Most importantly, by claiming these "agents of God" who execute wrongdoers can not be Christians because the death penalty is sinful, you're basically saying that God has authorized and commissioned non-Christians to commit sin.

Obviously, such logic is flawed and contrary to the rest of scripture.
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« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2004, 07:15:37 am »
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But, jmf, the authorities referred to in all your quotes are non Christian!

Most importantly, by claiming these "agents of God" who execute wrongdoers can not be Christians because the death penalty is sinful, you're basically saying that God has authorized and commissioned non-Christians to commit sin.

Obviously, such logic is flawed and contrary to the rest of scripture.

I was viewing this more from a historical, rather than logical, perspective. Christians, at the time these letters were written, were living in midst of a nonchristian society. Obeying its laws, which included the Deaht Penalty, strikes me as merely a sane course.
When Jesus had the power to prevent an execution, to be committed by his own people, he did so, at great personal risk to himself (that woman who was supposed to be stoned).
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« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2004, 10:32:05 am »
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You know, today I had an argument with a guy who tried to tell me that I can't be a Christian and be Pro-Choice.  I told him that I just have a fundamental belief that a fertilized egg does not have a soul.

I then asked him if he believes in the Death Penalty (he did).  I asked him how he can be Christian and favor the Death Penalty.  His response ... that's different.  So I ask, how so?  Isn't it a life?

Now personally, I do believe in the death penalty, but only in extreme cases.  Can I still be Christian if I believe in the death penalty?

Wakie, you are a Catholic, right.  Well...

 2266 The State's effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. The primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.[67]

2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.

This is from the official Catechism.  What say you to this?
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« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2004, 10:33:19 am »
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But the Bible also says,

"Judge not, that ye be not judged." - Matthew 7:1

Isn't taking someone's life away the ultimate of judgments?

No, the ultimate judgement would be condeming someone to Hell.  Such as the Liberals did when Reagan died.
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« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2004, 10:36:40 am »
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Yep, WHEN YOU ARE REPUBLICAN YOU CAN SAY ANYTHING AND DO ANYTHING TO CONFLICT YOUR ARGUMENT.

To what are you refering, exactly?  Don't just make a baseless, broad accusation.
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« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2004, 12:10:38 pm »
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My baseles claim.

When you call kerry a flip-flopper thats fine.

When i call fiscal conservatives h*******s. i get cried at and told not to say things.

You started this war by allowing charater assasinations to happen. you picked bush over mccain. and you know rove is behind the character assassinatio of Kerry so my claims will continue while bush remains in the white house.

Hillary for President in 2008
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« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2004, 10:39:41 pm »
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But, jmf, the authorities referred to in all your quotes are non Christian!

Most importantly, by claiming these "agents of God" who execute wrongdoers can not be Christians because the death penalty is sinful, you're basically saying that God has authorized and commissioned non-Christians to commit sin.

Obviously, such logic is flawed and contrary to the rest of scripture.

I was viewing this more from a historical, rather than logical, perspective. Christians, at the time these letters were written, were living in midst of a nonchristian society. Obeying its laws, which included the Deaht Penalty, strikes me as merely a sane course.

The New Testament records Christians in high ranking offices of society, and those offices had the authority (and duty) to carry out executions.

---

When Jesus had the power to prevent an execution, to be committed by his own people, he did so, at great personal risk to himself (that woman who was supposed to be stoned).

That execution was based on the moral condemnation of an individual who had been caught committing fornication.  It was a condemnation based on immoral activity, not criminal activity.
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« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2004, 10:50:54 pm »
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so had it been official law, it would've been OK to execute her?
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« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2004, 01:13:21 am »
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I am a practicing Roman Catholic, and I support the death penalty 110%.
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« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2004, 05:19:58 am »
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When Jesus had the power to prevent an execution, to be committed by his own people, he did so, at great personal risk to himself (that woman who was supposed to be stoned).

That execution was based on the moral condemnation of an individual who had been caught committing fornication.  It was a condemnation based on immoral activity, not criminal activity.
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It was based on Jewish common law of the time.
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« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2004, 06:16:56 am »
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When has the Pope supported the death penalty.
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« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2004, 07:39:46 am »
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I don't favour the death penalty simply because the wrongly convicted can be, and have been, executed.

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« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2004, 04:41:29 pm »
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It was based on Jewish common law of the time.

Actually, the "Jewish common law" had the scepter ALREADY passing to Jesus - the Jews no longer had the authority to put anyone to death.

Gen 49:10 "The scepter will not depart from Judah, until he comes to whom it belongs."
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« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2004, 07:15:50 pm »
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I support the death penalty in principle, but not in practice. There's been too many close calls with innocents on death row.
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« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2004, 10:17:05 pm »
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Yes.  This is a free country...

but seriously I don't think the death penalty is discussed in the New Testament.
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« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2004, 03:56:11 am »
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But the Bible also says,

"Judge not, that ye be not judged." - Matthew 7:1

Isn't taking someone's life away the ultimate of judgments?

That's in reference to the lay person. The Bible specifically sets up the idea that there should be professional judges.


Also, the bible states that abortion is a crime, but it is only punishable such that, "the one responsible shall be fined according as the woman's husband may exact from him, the payment to be based on reckoning." (Sometimes "reckoning" is translated to, "as the judges determine.") Exodus 21:22

It also should be noted that the verses just before this say that the if someone kills a slave (property in those days, mind you) that, "he must be avenged."

So, Exodus 21 places the value of a foetus' life below a slave's. In fact, kidnapping, striking your parent, and not preventing your ox from goring people when you know it has the propensity for such are all punishable by death; that is, they are all worse than aborting a foetus.


Furthermore, a Christian can believe whatever he or she bloody well chooses, but it may prevent him or her from being a "good Christian."
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« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2004, 10:31:19 am »
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It was based on Jewish common law of the time.

Actually, the "Jewish common law" had the scepter ALREADY passing to Jesus - the Jews no longer had the authority to put anyone to death.

Gen 49:10 "The scepter will not depart from Judah, until he comes to whom it belongs."
Er...you'll have to explain this a bit further...but it doesn't look very convincing to me till now...
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« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2004, 01:28:18 pm »
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Actually, the "Jewish common law" had the scepter ALREADY passing to Jesus - the Jews no longer had the authority to put anyone to death.

Gen 49:10 "The scepter will not depart from Judah, until he comes to whom it belongs."
Er...you'll have to explain this a bit further...but it doesn't look very convincing to me till now...

The scepter (authority) had already been passed to Jesus.
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2004, 01:24:50 pm »
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Actually, the "Jewish common law" had the scepter ALREADY passing to Jesus - the Jews no longer had the authority to put anyone to death.

Gen 49:10 "The scepter will not depart from Judah, until he comes to whom it belongs."
Er...you'll have to explain this a bit further...but it doesn't look very convincing to me till now...

The scepter (authority) had already been passed to Jesus.
So, that would explain why he had the tight to stop the execution based on someone else's verdict, but not why he didn't then hand it out himself.
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« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2004, 11:31:44 pm »
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I voted yes because I don't want to be judgemental. But I'm a Christian, am opposed, and think this is the proper view.
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« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2004, 12:43:33 am »
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So, that would explain why he had the tight to stop the execution based on someone else's verdict, but not why he didn't then hand it out himself.

The OT laws governing stoning people were simply a warning of eternal judgment for breaking God's laws.  They really had nothing to do with capital punishment as we know it today, rather the OT laws governed execution for not following a religion, regardless if the one being executed had actually harmed another individual.

Unlike the OT laws, Jesus didn't seek the execution of someone simply because they had failed a religious code.

You're comparing apples to oranges.
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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