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| | | |-+  Can Kerry convince Europe to deploy troops in Iraq
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Question: If Kerry is elected will Europe give troops?
Yes   -15 (33.3%)
No   -30 (66.7%)
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Total Voters: 41

Author Topic: Can Kerry convince Europe to deploy troops in Iraq  (Read 2558 times)
nomorelies
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« on: September 24, 2004, 10:27:21 am »
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If Kerry gives them contracts in Iraq and wipes the oil for food scandal will their offer troops.

A clean slate must be put on the table. Europe feels that its Bushs war but if Kerry says look bush was right to invade but he did it in the wrong way i know that. But we have to win this thing in Iraq and we need your help.

Can it work.
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Shira
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2004, 11:20:37 am »
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What Kerry badly needs is an explicit declaration from France and Germany now that if some conditions are met they will be willing to send their troops to Iraq.
These conditions are extremely important. Cheney by no means is willing to meet these conditions.
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nomorelies
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2004, 11:25:31 am »
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Sweden and Denmark would send troops if America signed an environmental treaty but thats tough.

France and Germany might do it if Kerry visits those countries. The people will show how happy they are.

Remember Shrodder got re-elected coz he stood against bush. So maybe Kerry could get troops on the ground.

Kerry could promise zero tolerance to Chechyna as a state if Putin gives troops to Iraq
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2004, 12:20:32 pm »
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Concerning Germany I say no. "No German soldiers in Iraq" was one of Schroeder's promises in the campaign and he has repeated it again and again in the past two years.

Being asked he would stress the German military commitment in Afghanistan and Ex-Yugoslavia.
IMHO the best Kerry could hope for were increased help in training the Iraqi military and police.

Concerning France, who knows ...
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2004, 04:48:55 pm »
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Only if Kerry apologizes to the world for the war, which I hope he does. I think they'd send some small deployments just on the news that Kerry is elected.
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2004, 01:20:04 pm »
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Sweden and Denmark would send troops if America signed an environmental treaty but thats tough.


Denmark already has troops in Iraq, some 500 men just north of Basra.
But it is a constant political issue in Denmark because of the lack of real progress towards an independent democratic Iraq.
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2004, 01:31:27 pm »
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The U.K., Poland, The Netherlands, Denmark, and Italy have troops in Iraq. Spain did. These are all major European nations and I think it is pretty condescending to say that Europe hasn't sent troops.

So will Kerry convince France to send troops? No. Germany? No. Russia? No way, Putin likes Bush better than Kerry.

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Tory
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2004, 01:34:26 pm »
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"No German soldiers in Iraq" was one of Schroeder's promises in the campaign and he has repeated it again and again in the past two years.

Schroeder doesn't need to worry about keeping election promises. The CDU is going to win the next election in a landslide.

It's a bit like John Major's situation. Blair was basically treated as the PM in waiting for two years before he was actually elected. I'm sure it's the same with Merkel, no?
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lidaker
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2004, 02:45:05 pm »
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Sweden and Denmark would send troops if America signed an environmental treaty but thats tough.

Sweden wouldn't anyway, because we are obsessed in this country about the Iraq war being a crime against international law, something that's considered holy here.

If Kerry's elected he will undoubtedly improve the relations between America and Europe, and that's needed.

But I don't think it will lead to France and Germany sending troops. The leaders of these countries are cynical cowards. Perhaps Kerry can convince them to contribute money and train Iraqi policemen, though.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2004, 02:48:22 pm by lidaker »Logged

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dazzleman
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2004, 03:11:53 pm »
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Many European countries already have troops in Germany.  The two big continental powers, France and Germany, do not, and will not regardless of who is president.

They would only cause problems, without bringing any real value to the table, so why bother?  They're a net liability.

I question the value of improved relations with these two countries in any case.  Whatever we do will be wrong in their eyes.  And their support of Kerry only makes me more suspicious of him.  The only way we can improve relations with those countries is to compromise our own security.  They're worth little as allies.  The only time they're willing to cooperate is when they need something.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2004, 03:12:19 pm by dazzleman »Logged
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2004, 05:23:32 pm »
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Your last sentence just summed up both France and Germany.
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2004, 06:52:16 pm »
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Kerry might be able to pry a few thousand additional troops out of Europe, but I doubt it.  Let's face it, there are only two places we can hope to get the troops we need in Iraq in the quantities we need them.  Here in the US and hopefully in Iraq.  Unfortunately, our attempts to build up Iraqi forces have not proved as rapid as we had hoped and neither Bush nor Kerry seems willing to increase the size of our Army so that we would have more troops to send to Iraq ourselves.  Instead, we're sucking dry the Reserves and the Guard in a vain attempt to pretend that the mess poor planning has gotten us into in Iraq is only temporary.
No matter who is elected this year, our troops in Iraq will be a campaign issue in 2008.

Given the international opinion of what we've been doing in Iraq and in Afghanistan, it probably would be both easier and more productive to get additional international troops for Afghanistan.
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2004, 10:03:01 pm »
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Germany and France will bring nothing to the table.  Gutless, souless, ungrateful bastards.  Cowards almost to the last of them.  They live in fantasy land as their economies show near negative growth year after year, their birth rates as close to zero as it can get, their churches go empty on Sunday while their mosques fill to the brim for daily prayers.  The people are decadent, abortion records are set year after year and men marry each other.  The continent is near disaster.  What a mess.  Who needs them anyway?  
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2004, 10:06:32 pm »
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Germany and France will bring nothing to the table.  Gutless, souless, ungrateful bastards.  Cowards almost to the last of them.  They live in fantasy land as their economies show near negative growth year after year, their birth rates as close to zero as it can get, their churches go empty on Sunday while their mosques fill to the brim for daily prayers.  The people are decadent, abortion records are set year after year and men marry each other.  The continent is near disaster.  What a mess.  Who needs them anyway?  

You're my kind of guy! Cheesy
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lidaker
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2004, 06:46:57 am »
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Germany and France will bring nothing to the table.  Gutless, souless, ungrateful bastards.  Cowards almost to the last of them.  They live in fantasy land as their economies show near negative growth year after year, their birth rates as close to zero as it can get, their churches go empty on Sunday while their mosques fill to the brim for daily prayers.  The people are decadent, abortion records are set year after year and men marry each other.  The continent is near disaster.  What a mess.  Who needs them anyway?

Only an insular republican could see empty churches, full mosques, abortions and homosexual marriage as signs of decadence.

But the kind of narrow-minded "Christian" values, Islamophobia and homophobia you express would really qualify.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2004, 08:49:01 am by lidaker »Logged

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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2004, 07:14:51 am »
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"No German soldiers in Iraq" was one of Schroeder's promises in the campaign and he has repeated it again and again in the past two years.

Schroeder doesn't need to worry about keeping election promises. The CDU is going to win the next election in a landslide.

It's a bit like John Major's situation. Blair was basically treated as the PM in waiting for two years before he was actually elected. I'm sure it's the same with Merkel, no?

Unfortunately, no.

The people are dissatisfied with the SPD/Greens government, but most are convinced CDU/FDP would not make it much better.
 
There are very different positions within the CDU/CSU concerning tax reform, reform of social security etc. and the voters miss a clear direction. Discussions whether Merkel is the right candidate are not helpful, either.

At the moment it's far from safe that the CDU will win the next election, although they maintain are comfortable (but decreasing) lead in the polls.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2004, 07:21:08 am »
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The real answer is to train enough Iraqi forces and then leave.  More foreign troops are only a short-term answer, but ultimately that's not the direction we should be going in.
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Mort from NewYawk
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2004, 12:39:27 am »
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The subject of this thread is based on the assumption that John Kerry WANTS to convince Europe to deploy troops.

Oh sure, that was the first flavor he chose for his Iraq policy, because he thought that bashing Bush on U.S. unilateralism could gain him the critical voter confidence that he is a viable Commander-in-Chief. However, that strategy, like all the others he's deployed, failed to get him above 35-40% confidence on this issue.

The newest flavor (the 4-year withdrawal plan) is much closer to what Kerry would like to do. After all, he built a career on pushing for U.S. withdrawals, at least we know he's comfortable with it.

No need to get agitated with Jacques and Gerhard over fighting those crazy bastards in Iraq. The timetable for withdrawal would make for much more pleasant conversation for John and Teresa when they sit with the Chiracs and the Schroeders over fine wine and puff pastries.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 12:40:55 am by Mort from NewYawk »Logged

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qwerty
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2004, 01:21:04 am »
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Kerry will be able to convince Europe to go into Iraq when he convinces the American People to vote for him.

So, the answer is, no.
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Umengus
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2004, 02:25:08 am »
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The solution for Kerry is ONU. If ONU takes the problem and send ONU troops in irak (or american troops become ONU troops), France and Germany (maybe not Germany) will can participate to the security, rebuilding,... of Iraq.

You must know that France (politics and public opinion)was ready to participate to the Iraq war II but the condition was: ONU (and not bush unilateralism, bush provocation,...)
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2004, 03:02:35 pm »
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Germany- I seem to remember that the German economy is going into the tank so I think Schroeder deploying troops would be political.

France-No way.

Russia- They might deploy troops if we support them in Chechnya, but you don't need to change presidents to make it happen.

Sweden- No way.  They agree with the UN bastards who say the war is illegal.
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zorkpolitics
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2004, 08:36:05 pm »
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No.
France and Germany have not deployed the troops they promised to Boisnia, or Afganistan, both wars they supported politically.  
They will not suddenly send troops to Iraq, a war they do not support.
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« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2004, 09:07:38 am »
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Bringing the Russians along- not a good idea:
1. Damages the democracy mission: Russia's democratic status is at best questionable.
2. Might bring along the Chechen terrorists.
3. Al-Qaeda probably remember the Russians from Afghanistan.
4. We don't want Chechnya methods in Iraq.
5. They've got Chechnya to deal with.
6. They really aren't the most competent military.
7. Strong ties with Saddam (vis weapons sales).
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