Opinion of Robert E. Lee

[SPC]

anti-slavery secessionist general = freedom fighter.

[Lief 🗽]

anti-slavery secessionist general = freedom fighter.

All of the secessionists were fighting for slavery, SPC, whether or not they liked to admit it. Robert E. Lee, unlike many of the poor, ignorant conscripts he sent to their deaths, actually chose to fight for it though.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Robert E. Lee was not a traitor. His home state of Virginia left the Union, therefore he felt obliged to leave. Had he not sided with Virginia, he would be a traitor.

So then what were the anti-Confederate guerillas in eastern Tennesee, Winston County, Alabama, Central Texas and other such places?

[SPC]

anti-slavery secessionist general = freedom fighter.

All of the secessionists were fighting for slavery, SPC, whether or not they liked to admit it. Robert E. Lee, unlike many of the poor, ignorant conscripts he sent to their deaths, actually chose to fight for it though.

Don't act like the Union didn't have the draft, and at least in the political sense, it was the South fighting against political enslavement.

[RosettaStoned]

Scum.

[they don't love you like i love you]

FF is winning and people say this forum has a liberal bias?

[Meeker]

I like the guy. I know he had his flaws and such, but I guess I sort of think of it as "just business". Like Pat Buchanan. Can't stand most of what he does and nearly anything he stands for, but I still love the guy.

[Lief 🗽]

anti-slavery secessionist general = freedom fighter.

All of the secessionists were fighting for slavery, SPC, whether or not they liked to admit it. Robert E. Lee, unlike many of the poor, ignorant conscripts he sent to their deaths, actually chose to fight for it though.

Don't act like the Union didn't have the draft, and at least in the political sense, it was the South fighting against political enslavement.

I don't pretend to not support conscription. When a country is threatened, then they should be able to draft their citizens to defend the country. And I don't buy this "political enslavement" garbage; politically enslaved to do what? Treat people as human-beings rather than property? And if you want to talk about political enslavement, the South did their part in pushing their pro-slavery policies on the north, through the Fugitive Slave Act, and things like the Crittenden and Corwin amendments.

[The Dowager Mod]

He fought to uphold the enslavement of others so he doesn't get a FF from me, but he was perhaps the greatest tactical commander America ever produced.

[SPC]

anti-slavery secessionist general = freedom fighter.

All of the secessionists were fighting for slavery, SPC, whether or not they liked to admit it. Robert E. Lee, unlike many of the poor, ignorant conscripts he sent to their deaths, actually chose to fight for it though.

Don't act like the Union didn't have the draft, and at least in the political sense, it was the South fighting against political enslavement.

I don't pretend to not support conscription. When a country is threatened, then they should be able to draft their citizens to defend the country. And I don't buy this "political enslavement" garbage; politically enslaved to do what? Treat people as human-beings rather than property? And if you want to talk about political enslavement, the South did their part in pushing their pro-slavery policies on the north, through the Fugitive Slave Act, and things like the Crittenden and Corwin amendments.

What is the point of defending one's country if one already lives under a tyranny, one where the state can send you to die? They are politically enslaved to the United States government, thanks to the Union victory. I don't deny that the South pushed pro-slavery policies on the North (BTW, Lincoln was the one who sponsored the Corwin Amendment). However, apparently unbeknownst to you, by seceding, the South made it so the North wouldn't have to put up with political enslavement. Thus, an independent South meant that the Fugutive Slave Act wouldn't be enforced, and that the North wouldn't have to put up with the South's slavery anymore. Also, it is funny that you support the draft and at the same time object to the idea that humans are property, since apparently when someone can send you to a battlefield at your life's risk far away from your home, you can still own yourself. Good luck explaining that one.

[Lief 🗽]

anti-slavery secessionist general = freedom fighter.

All of the secessionists were fighting for slavery, SPC, whether or not they liked to admit it. Robert E. Lee, unlike many of the poor, ignorant conscripts he sent to their deaths, actually chose to fight for it though.

Don't act like the Union didn't have the draft, and at least in the political sense, it was the South fighting against political enslavement.

I don't pretend to not support conscription. When a country is threatened, then they should be able to draft their citizens to defend the country. And I don't buy this "political enslavement" garbage; politically enslaved to do what? Treat people as human-beings rather than property? And if you want to talk about political enslavement, the South did their part in pushing their pro-slavery policies on the north, through the Fugitive Slave Act, and things like the Crittenden and Corwin amendments.

What is the point of defending one's country if one already lives under a tyranny, one where the state can send you to die? They are politically enslaved to the United States government, thanks to the Union victory. I don't deny that the South pushed pro-slavery policies on the North (BTW, Lincoln was the one who sponsored the Corwin Amendment). However, apparently unbeknownst to you, by seceding, the South made it so the North wouldn't have to put up with political enslavement. Thus, an independent South meant that the Fugutive Slave Act wouldn't be enforced, and that the North wouldn't have to put up with the South's slavery anymore. Also, it is funny that you support the draft and at the same time object to the idea that humans are property, since apparently when someone can send you to a battlefield at your life's risk far away from your home, you can still own yourself. Good luck explaining that one.

You and I have different definitions of tyranny, obviously. Conscription is never a good thing, and obviously not a goal of a democratic government, but sometimes some freedoms must be temporarily taken away to preserve the state, so that it can continue to protect freedom and natural rights after the conflict is over.

[Rob]

It's really annoying how much Northerners like to bash the Confederacy and hold it over our heads

That's because most southern whites celebrate the Confederacy. Hint: we might think better of you if a majority of your state's voters had opposed a treasonous flag design. You didn't, and that's a slap in the face to everyone who supported the United States during that time.

Few would ever mention the Civil War if y'all didn't seem so fucking proud of it.

[A18]

Every half-decent person has a soft spot in his heart for treason.

[The Mikado]

anti-slavery secessionist general = freedom fighter.

All of the secessionists were fighting for slavery, SPC, whether or not they liked to admit it. Robert E. Lee, unlike many of the poor, ignorant conscripts he sent to their deaths, actually chose to fight for it though.

Don't act like the Union didn't have the draft, and at least in the political sense, it was the South fighting against political enslavement.

I don't pretend to not support conscription. When a country is threatened, then they should be able to draft their citizens to defend the country. And I don't buy this "political enslavement" garbage; politically enslaved to do what? Treat people as human-beings rather than property? And if you want to talk about political enslavement, the South did their part in pushing their pro-slavery policies on the north, through the Fugitive Slave Act, and things like the Crittenden and Corwin amendments.

What is the point of defending one's country if one already lives under a tyranny, one where the state can send you to die? They are politically enslaved to the United States government, thanks to the Union victory. I don't deny that the South pushed pro-slavery policies on the North (BTW, Lincoln was the one who sponsored the Corwin Amendment). However, apparently unbeknownst to you, by seceding, the South made it so the North wouldn't have to put up with political enslavement. Thus, an independent South meant that the Fugutive Slave Act wouldn't be enforced, and that the North wouldn't have to put up with the South's slavery anymore. Also, it is funny that you support the draft and at the same time object to the idea that humans are property, since apparently when someone can send you to a battlefield at your life's risk far away from your home, you can still own yourself. Good luck explaining that one.

Tyranny refers to the illegitimate, extralegal (ab)use of state power.  There's nothing tyrannical about a properly-ordered and maintained conscription.  I'll grant you that the Civil War-era conscription was a pretty ramshackle process and doesn't meet up to snuff, but conscription itself is neither good nor bad, it's a tool that can be used or not used when necessary.

[Josh/Devilman88]

It's really annoying how much Northerners like to bash the Confederacy and hold it over our heads

That's because most southern whites celebrate the Confederacy. Hint: we might think better of you if a majority of your state's voters had opposed a treasonous flag design. You didn't, and that's a slap in the face to everyone who supported the United States during that time.

Few would ever mention the Civil War if y'all didn't seem so fucking proud of it.

Are you stupid? Please tell me when the last time you have lived in the south? Anyways, most whites don't celebrate the Confederacy at all and anyone who thinks that is just plain stupid.

[Josh/Devilman88]

It's really annoying how much Northerners like to bash the Confederacy and hold it over our heads

That's because most southern whites celebrate the Confederacy. Hint: we might think better of you if a majority of your state's voters had opposed a treasonous flag design. You didn't, and that's a slap in the face to everyone who supported the United States during that time.

Few would ever mention the Civil War if y'all didn't seem so fucking proud of it.

Are you stupid? Please tell me when the last time you have lived in the south? Anyways, most whites don't celebrate the Confederacy at all and anyone who thinks that is just plain stupid.

Agree.  "Most" Southern whites don't celebrate the Confederacy.  Some do, obviously.  Also, the legislature should have just grown a pair and changed the flag.  In fact, Haley Barbour regularly disappoints me because he could get away with doing it and doesn't.

Anyway, Southerners wouldn't have to be so defensive about being from the South if Northerners didn't constantly judge us.

But Harry to Northerners we are just a bunch of stupid teethless hillbillies who have sex with our family...

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

It's heritage, not hate!

[dead0man]

It's really annoying how much Northerners like to bash the Confederacy and hold it over our heads

That's because most southern whites celebrate the Confederacy. Hint: we might think better of you if a majority of your state's voters had opposed a treasonous flag design. You didn't, and that's a slap in the face to everyone who supported the United States during that time.

Few would ever mention the Civil War if y'all didn't seem so fucking proud of it.

Are you stupid? Please tell me when the last time you have lived in the south? Anyways, most whites don't celebrate the Confederacy at all and anyone who thinks that is just plain stupid.

Dude, I lived in Atlanta for awhile and in a couple other places in the south.  I'm not saying everybody down there still....worships(I don't know what to call it) the Civil War, but many many do.  Maybe it's because a lot of the Civil War battlefields are down there so it's a little more "in your face" than it is in the rest of the country.  There is certainly some "pride" (ill aimed or not) over the whole thing.

I don't know if it's a negative or not.  I don't know if it matters at the end of the day.  I do know people in the south care a whole hell of a lot more about the Civil War than people in the rest of the country do.

[Josh/Devilman88]

It's really annoying how much Northerners like to bash the Confederacy and hold it over our heads

That's because most southern whites celebrate the Confederacy. Hint: we might think better of you if a majority of your state's voters had opposed a treasonous flag design. You didn't, and that's a slap in the face to everyone who supported the United States during that time.

Few would ever mention the Civil War if y'all didn't seem so fucking proud of it.

Are you stupid? Please tell me when the last time you have lived in the south? Anyways, most whites don't celebrate the Confederacy at all and anyone who thinks that is just plain stupid.

Dude, I lived in Atlanta for awhile and in a couple other places in the south.  I'm not saying everybody down there still....worships(I don't know what to call it) the Civil War, but many many do.  Maybe it's because a lot of the Civil War battlefields are down there so it's a little more "in your face" than it is in the rest of the country.  There is certainly some "pride" (ill aimed or not) over the whole thing.

I don't know if it's a negative or not.  I don't know if it matters at the end of the day.  I do know people in the south care a whole hell of a lot more about the Civil War than people in the rest of the country do.

Maybe 2% of the white people in the south do but that is it. But Rob said that most southern whites celebrate the Confederacy.

[dead0man]

Maybe 2% of the white people in the south do but that is it. But Rob said that most southern whites celebrate the Confederacy.

Seriously?  You think only 2% of the south owns something with a Confederate flag on it?  I don't know if "most" celebrate it or not, but clearly many more than 2% do. 

Maybe your part of the south is weird and not that into it.  Do you ever get into Georgia and Alabama?  Or maybe the parts of the south (I've lived in Atlanta, Biloxi and Panama City) I've seen are the weird ones.  I saw Confederate flags everywhere (hyperbole).  I'd be shocked if less than 2% of the white people in southern Indiana and Illinois were "fans" of the Confederacy.  I'd be surprised if the number was less than 33% in the real south.

[Josh/Devilman88]

Maybe 2% of the white people in the south do but that is it. But Rob said that most southern whites celebrate the Confederacy.

Seriously?  You think only 2% of the south owns something with a Confederate flag on it?  I don't know if "most" celebrate it or not, but clearly many more than 2% do. 

Maybe your part of the south is weird and not that into it.  Do you ever get into Georgia and Alabama?  Or maybe the parts of the south (I've lived in Atlanta, Biloxi and Panama City) I've seen are the weird ones.  I saw Confederate flags everywhere (hyperbole).  I'd be shocked if less than 2% of the white people in southern Indiana and Illinois were "fans" of the Confederacy.  I'd be surprised if the number was less than 33% in the real south.

Well I have been in NC, SC, TN, VA and Northern GA and yea I have seend people with the Confederacy flag but not alot of them like you are saying.

[Lief 🗽]

I went to one of the little beach towns in Texas once (Port Aransas I think?), and I was like ten or so years old. Now, having lived in Austin, a civilized fortress in the sea of backwardness and ignorance that is the South, I had never really seen anyone with a Confederate flag before. But they were everywhere in this podunk little coast town. People at the beach were laying on Confederate flag towels. In one of the stores, there was a giant confederate flag hanging from the ceiling. It was on the back of a number of pickup trucks. Please don't pretend that this sentiment doesn't exist amongst a significant portion of the Southern population.

[they don't love you like i love you]

I should cite this poll everytime someone accuses this of being a liberally-slanted form.

[Storebought]

I should cite this poll everytime someone accuses this of being a liberally-slanted form.

Or perhaps that they recognize Lee as one of the most civilized human beings this country has produced.

I agree mostly with Texasgurl: Great tactician, lousy politician.

[they don't love you like i love you]

I should cite this poll everytime someone accuses this of being a liberally-slanted form.

Or perhaps that they recognize Lee as one of the most civilized human beings this country has produced.

No, more like a traitor fighting for a wretched regime. Disgusting human trash just like every single person who fought for that abomination that is the Confederacy.