GM, Chrysler (and to a slightly lesser extent Ford) still can't build good cars

[dead0man]

link

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Honda
Subaru
Toyota
Mazda
Mercedes Benz
Nissan
VW
BMW
Hyundai
Volvo
Mitsubishi
Ford
Suzuki
GM
Chrysler

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I remember reading Consumer Reports back in 2002 & seeing how badly Japanese cars beat American ones in that category. Guess some things haven't changed.

[dead0man]

I've been reading CR for basically my entire life.  My dad has always gotten it, and he gives me last years book every year when he gets the knew one.  American cars (with a few exceptions) have always been in the "black" and the Japanese cars (with a few exceptions) have always been in the "red". (red is good, black is bad in this case)  My love of sports cars* comes from reading Car and Driver and such, my love of foreign sports cars comes from reading Consumer Reports.


*Plus Americans don't tend to make sports cars.  Mustangs and Camaros are NOT sports cars, they are Pony Cars.  Corvettes (depending on the model) are not sports cars, they are GT cars.  The Fiero was close.  The Pontiac Solstice is.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You can't teach a dead dog new tricks.

[dead0man]

I don't know, I feel like Ford has been moving up a lot.  This may be a bit of an outlier.  Every time I read about the American automakers, Ford has been on par with the Japanese.  Maybe it's hopeful thinking, but I think Ford has made the transition from crap back to a real choice.  Sure they may still be struggling with a few things (transmissions) but I have faith.  At least one of our three is legit and can survive.

They've done a lot of co engineering with Mazda and Volvo over the last decade or so.  From the Probe (a re-bodied Mazda 626/Mx6), Fusion and all of Ford/Mercurys mid size SUVs (runs on the previous Mazda 6 chassis) to the current full sized* cars like Taurus/Five Hundred (a Volvo chassis) and lots of other examples.  Plus Ford has always been a little ahead of the other "big two" in the quality department anyway.

You'd think a little of Mercedes would have rubbed off on the Chrysler guys, but alas, that doesn't seem to have happened.  Chryslers have pretty much always sucked.  My dad has at least twice in his life said he'd never buy another Chrysler product.  The first after having a horrible time with a 1969 Plymouth Road Runner, the second after having a horrible time with a 1982 Plymouth Horizon.  It's unfortunate really, Chrysler has made some pretty nifty cars over the years, if you don't mind bad quality control and rust.

[opebo]

Consumer Reports doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Certainly all cars, but particularly american cars, have been bad since about 1996 and only getting worse - this is the result of the application of too much 'high tech'.

But old GM cars, and some old Fords and Chryslers, were absolutely unmatched for cheapness of operation, comfort, safety, and durability.  Some older Japanese cars were ok as well, but far from consistently cheaper to operate - in spite of somewhat less frequent repairs - due to much higher parts costs.  Also driving older Japanese cars wasn't much fun as they were tiny and dangerous.

Really it is hilarious to see what passes for a 'good car' nowadays.  Its all testimony to the loss of standard of living.

[dead0man]

Yeah, we all know your insane views on the automobile by now.  But just for fun I'll ask ya a question (or three).

What do you think motivates Consumer Reports (and everybody else that knows anything about cars) to be so unfair to American cars?
Do you question all of CR's reports or just on autos? 
How do you feel about J.D.Power?

[JohnnyLongtorso]

Consumer Reports doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Certainly all cars, but particularly american cars, have been bad since about 1996 and only getting worse - this is the result of the application of too much 'high tech'.

But old GM cars, and some old Fords and Chryslers, were absolutely unmatched for cheapness of operation, comfort, safety, and durability.  Some older Japanese cars were ok as well, but far from consistently cheaper to operate - in spite of somewhat less frequent repairs - due to much higher parts costs.  Also driving older Japanese cars wasn't much fun as they were tiny and dangerous.

Really it is hilarious to see what passes for a 'good car' nowadays.  Its all testimony to the loss of standard of living.

You know, not everyone likes driving a 17 foot long boat that gets 12 miles to the gallon.

[opebo]

What do you think motivates Consumer Reports (and everybody else that knows anything about cars) to be so unfair to American cars?
Do you question all of CR's reports or just on autos? 
How do you feel about J.D.Power?

They're motivated by a bias towards technology and against larger vehicles, as well as a general 'american is bad' attitude.  The kind of people who write about cars or engage in 'engineering', etc., are the kind who like sporty cars, technological gimmickry, etc.  All these people tend to hate what most americans like - a large, simple, smooth automobile.

You know, not everyone likes driving a 17 foot long boat that gets 12 miles to the gallon.

Well that's good for them, then, because such fine things are no longer made.