NBC News and Fox News

[State Comptroller Atkins]

Why did NBC News and Fox News call Ohio a long time before any of the other networks did?

[Gustaf]

CNN wanted Kerry to win really badly, and they thought the chances of that would be better if they deluded themselves by not calling states for Bush until later.

The others were being cautious maybe? What are the other networks beside Fox, NBC and CNN anyway?

[Prez Duke]

I don't know, but NBC/CNN would call KErry states instantly, while Bush states would take time. SC, GA, VA, NC, WV etc were all too early to call for a long time, yet close states like MI and PA were called for Kerry as soon as the polls closed.

[I left.]

in 2004 as in 2008, I think it's for this reason:

exit polls tended to heavily overstate Democratic support in both elections....thereby making smaller Democratic wins seem like landslides...allowing them to make a projection. I think New Hampshire and Pennsylvania 2004 exit polls had Kerry by double digits.

Or this year, the exit polls had Obama by 15 in PA....5 more than he actually got.
On the other hand, the exit polls had McCain by 1 in South Dakota, I believe....and in Arizona, and even though neither was really close....they weren't able to project because of that.

[Nym90]

I don't know, but NBC/CNN would call KErry states instantly, while Bush states would take time. SC, GA, VA, NC, WV etc were all too early to call for a long time, yet close states like MI and PA were called for Kerry as soon as the polls closed.

Not true.

http://uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/ARTICLES/ElectionNight2004/pe2004elecnighttime.php

PA was called at 10:49 PM, MI at 5:30 AM(!).

Granted this is NBC, not sure what CNN's timeframe was (I could go back and check my tape, or YouTube).

And WV took 18 minutes to call, which is not exactly a "long time" in my opinion, though I suppose given the 12 point margin you could argue it should've been instant.

[© Tweed the Younger]

also the network phraseology for that is "too early to call"

[GPORTER]

I don't know, but NBC/CNN would call KErry states instantly, while Bush states would take time. SC, GA, VA, NC, WV etc were all too early to call for a long time, yet close states like MI and PA were called for Kerry as soon as the polls closed.

Not true.

http://uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/ARTICLES/ElectionNight2004/pe2004elecnighttime.php

PA was called at 10:49 PM, MI at 5:30 AM(!).

Granted this is NBC, not sure what CNN's timeframe was (I could go back and check my tape, or YouTube).

And WV took 18 minutes to call, which is not exactly a "long time" in my opinion, though I suppose given the 12 point margin you could argue it should've been instant.

Duke is kind of right though.

The networks called New Jersey for Kerry immediately after the polls there were closed. New Jersey was relatively close for New Jersey.

But, Duke is more right about the Bush states taking an unusually long time to call. Some of them at least.

These states are:

Virgina
North Carolina
South Carolina
Mississippi
Missouri
Louisiana
Arkansas
Arizona
Colorado
Montana

Even North Dakota had some trouble being called. Not that it was close.

[Nym90]

All states were a bit slower to be called in 2004 due to the egg the networks' had on their faces in 2000.

In the case of North Dakota, the polls in the Mountain Time portion of the state don't close until 11:00 PM Eastern. No state can be called until all polls in that state are closed (another modification caused by 2000; previously, the rule was that a state could be called if at least 75 percent of the polls were closed).

[GPORTER]

All states were a bit slower to be called in 2004 due to the egg the networks' had on their faces in 2000.

In the case of North Dakota, the polls in the Mountain Time portion of the state don't close until 11:00 PM Eastern. No state can be called until all polls in that state are closed (another modification caused by 2000; previously, the rule was that a state could be called if at least 75 percent of the polls were closed).

and thank heavens that they have this rule because it was stupid of the networks to call Florida early in 2000 for Gore when not even all of the polls had closed.

[JoeyJoeJoe]

A lot of the states that went more strongly for Bush are Southern states with a lot of African American voters.  If the white areas in those states where the ones coming in first, then the networks might have just been waiting to see how heavy the black turnout in urban areas was before giving the states to Bush.

[Sasquatch]

CNN was really slow to call. MSNBC were being hacks for not calling states like Mississippi and Montana when the polls closed. Fox News was calling them just as quick as the so called "liberal" networks were in 2000.

[Sewer]

MSNBC were being hacks for not calling states like Montana when the polls closed.

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Montana was a close state.

[Sasquatch]

MSNBC were being hacks for not calling states like Montana when the polls closed.

...

Montana was a close state.

Bush - 266,063  (59.07%)
Kerry - 173,710  (38.56%)

Down to the wire.

[Lief]

Montana was "too early to call" not "too close to call", if I remember correctly.

[sg0508]

I don't know, but NBC/CNN would call KErry states instantly, while Bush states would take time. SC, GA, VA, NC, WV etc were all too early to call for a long time, yet close states like MI and PA were called for Kerry as soon as the polls closed.

I'm not sure what you were watching, but MI was not called until the middle of the night and GA was called right now.  SC took some time as did MT.  NJ was a quick call, which surprised us. 

It wasn't that bad. 

The other networks all called NV rather than OH.  In the end, it didn't matter.

[Derek]

The state of Ohio was called as it should have been. The other networks refused to announce it in order to cause Bush to give his acceptance speech the next day at 3p.m. while everyone was at work instead of at the end of the election night or just before midnight. The mainstream media hates the GOP and MSNBC made an executive decision to move to the left about a year later. The candidates actually get the results before the news networks anyways so it's not like Bush or Kerry were waiting in suspense. Kerry didn't want to give Bush the full feeling of being reelected either and he was too much of a wimp to come out and admit defeat.

[sg0508]

The state of Ohio was called as it should have been. The other networks refused to announce it in order to cause Bush to give his acceptance speech the next day at 3p.m. while everyone was at work instead of at the end of the election night or just before midnight. The mainstream media hates the GOP and MSNBC made an executive decision to move to the left about a year later. The candidates actually get the results before the news networks anyways so it's not like Bush or Kerry were waiting in suspense. Kerry didn't want to give Bush the full feeling of being reelected either and he was too much of a wimp to come out and admit defeat.

Then why did some networks call NV (ABC, CNN), but not OH?  After 2000, Kerry didn't want to concede so fast.  In the end, a reversal in OH would have put Kerry over the top. 

[Derek]

The state of Ohio was called as it should have been. The other networks refused to announce it in order to cause Bush to give his acceptance speech the next day at 3p.m. while everyone was at work instead of at the end of the election night or just before midnight. The mainstream media hates the GOP and MSNBC made an executive decision to move to the left about a year later. The candidates actually get the results before the news networks anyways so it's not like Bush or Kerry were waiting in suspense. Kerry didn't want to give Bush the full feeling of being reelected either and he was too much of a wimp to come out and admit defeat.

Then why did some networks call NV (ABC, CNN), but not OH?  After 2000, Kerry didn't want to concede so fast.  In the end, a reversal in OH would have put Kerry over the top. 

Bush didn't need Nevada to win and could've still won without it. Everything hinged on Ohio. Kerry maybe a dork, but he's not stupid and knows damn well Gore wasn't as close as perceived in FL and that there wasn't a single real problem with counting votes in 2000. Sure, he played that card to gain sympathy from moderates and the press, but the fact of the matter is Kerry knew 2000 wasn't as close as the democrats want you to believe. From my recollection, NV was called by everyone and Ohio was called by anyone who mattered.

[justW353]

The state of Ohio was called as it should have been. The other networks refused to announce it in order to cause Bush to give his acceptance speech the next day at 3p.m. while everyone was at work instead of at the end of the election night or just before midnight. The mainstream media hates the GOP and MSNBC made an executive decision to move to the left about a year later. The candidates actually get the results before the news networks anyways so it's not like Bush or Kerry were waiting in suspense. Kerry didn't want to give Bush the full feeling of being reelected either and he was too much of a wimp to come out and admit defeat.

Then why did some networks call NV (ABC, CNN), but not OH?  After 2000, Kerry didn't want to concede so fast.  In the end, a reversal in OH would have put Kerry over the top. 

Bush didn't need Nevada to win and could've still won without it. Everything hinged on Ohio. Kerry maybe a dork, but he's not stupid and knows damn well Gore wasn't as close as perceived in FL and that there wasn't a single real problem with counting votes in 2000. Sure, he played that card to gain sympathy from moderates and the press, but the fact of the matter is Kerry knew 2000 wasn't as close as the democrats want you to believe. From my recollection, NV was called by everyone and Ohio was called by anyone who mattered.

Gore won the popular vote in 2000...The people who wanted Albert Gore to be President outnumbered those who wanted George Bush to be President.

Al Gore "lost" by 537 votes.  I find it hard to believe that 537 Jewish retirees in West Palm Beach would vote for an anti-semite like Pat Buchanan instead of Gore.

[Bo]

The state of Ohio was called as it should have been. The other networks refused to announce it in order to cause Bush to give his acceptance speech the next day at 3p.m. while everyone was at work instead of at the end of the election night or just before midnight. The mainstream media hates the GOP and MSNBC made an executive decision to move to the left about a year later. The candidates actually get the results before the news networks anyways so it's not like Bush or Kerry were waiting in suspense. Kerry didn't want to give Bush the full feeling of being reelected either and he was too much of a wimp to come out and admit defeat.

Then why did some networks call NV (ABC, CNN), but not OH?  After 2000, Kerry didn't want to concede so fast.  In the end, a reversal in OH would have put Kerry over the top. 

Bush didn't need Nevada to win and could've still won without it. Everything hinged on Ohio. Kerry maybe a dork, but he's not stupid and knows damn well Gore wasn't as close as perceived in FL and that there wasn't a single real problem with counting votes in 2000. Sure, he played that card to gain sympathy from moderates and the press, but the fact of the matter is Kerry knew 2000 wasn't as close as the democrats want you to believe. From my recollection, NV was called by everyone and Ohio was called by anyone who mattered.

Gore won the popular vote in 2000...The people who wanted Albert Gore to be President outnumbered those who wanted George Bush to be President.

Al Gore "lost" by 537 votes.  I find it hard to believe that 537 Jewish retirees in West Palm Beach would vote for an anti-semite like Pat Buchanan instead of Gore.

The people who did not want Gore to be President outnumbered those who wanted Gore to be President, though. And besides, the PV is irrelevant--only the EV counts and Gore knew that. Right before the election, where was speculation Bush might win the PV and Gore might win the EV, and Gore's advisors indicated that Gore would be OK with such an outcome. Also, I think I read somewhere that Pat Buchanan had a cousin who lived in Palm Beach County who ran a very active grassroots campaign for him in that county, so that might at least partially explain why Pat Buchanan won a dispropotionally high % in that county. I don't think ballot design alone was the reason.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The state of Ohio was called as it should have been. The other networks refused to announce it in order to cause Bush to give his acceptance speech the next day at 3p.m. while everyone was at work instead of at the end of the election night or just before midnight. The mainstream media hates the GOP and MSNBC made an executive decision to move to the left about a year later. The candidates actually get the results before the news networks anyways so it's not like Bush or Kerry were waiting in suspense. Kerry didn't want to give Bush the full feeling of being reelected either and he was too much of a wimp to come out and admit defeat.

Then why did some networks call NV (ABC, CNN), but not OH?  After 2000, Kerry didn't want to concede so fast.  In the end, a reversal in OH would have put Kerry over the top. 

Bush didn't need Nevada to win and could've still won without it. Everything hinged on Ohio. Kerry maybe a dork, but he's not stupid and knows damn well Gore wasn't as close as perceived in FL and that there wasn't a single real problem with counting votes in 2000. Sure, he played that card to gain sympathy from moderates and the press, but the fact of the matter is Kerry knew 2000 wasn't as close as the democrats want you to believe. From my recollection, NV was called by everyone and Ohio was called by anyone who mattered.

Gore won the popular vote in 2000...The people who wanted Albert Gore to be President outnumbered those who wanted George Bush to be President.

Al Gore "lost" by 537 votes.  I find it hard to believe that 537 Jewish retirees in West Palm Beach would vote for an anti-semite like Pat Buchanan instead of Gore.

Bush led by only 154 when the recount ended. The 5 Bush partisans on SCOTUS panicked, and ended the recount and invalidated the results. They issued a stay of the recount on Dec. 9th 2000, and then on Dec. 12 ruled that some non-binding deadline of Dec. 12 2000 was missed, and the recount had to end. Hmmm, I wonder why.

Anyways, under a uniform statewide recount, it is clear that Al Gore would have officially won (we all know that he really won).

[Derek]

The state of Ohio was called as it should have been. The other networks refused to announce it in order to cause Bush to give his acceptance speech the next day at 3p.m. while everyone was at work instead of at the end of the election night or just before midnight. The mainstream media hates the GOP and MSNBC made an executive decision to move to the left about a year later. The candidates actually get the results before the news networks anyways so it's not like Bush or Kerry were waiting in suspense. Kerry didn't want to give Bush the full feeling of being reelected either and he was too much of a wimp to come out and admit defeat.

Then why did some networks call NV (ABC, CNN), but not OH?  After 2000, Kerry didn't want to concede so fast.  In the end, a reversal in OH would have put Kerry over the top. 

Bush didn't need Nevada to win and could've still won without it. Everything hinged on Ohio. Kerry maybe a dork, but he's not stupid and knows damn well Gore wasn't as close as perceived in FL and that there wasn't a single real problem with counting votes in 2000. Sure, he played that card to gain sympathy from moderates and the press, but the fact of the matter is Kerry knew 2000 wasn't as close as the democrats want you to believe. From my recollection, NV was called by everyone and Ohio was called by anyone who mattered.

Gore won the popular vote in 2000...The people who wanted Albert Gore to be President outnumbered those who wanted George Bush to be President.

Al Gore "lost" by 537 votes.  I find it hard to believe that 537 Jewish retirees in West Palm Beach would vote for an anti-semite like Pat Buchanan instead of Gore.

You know everything don't you LMAO! You have no proof or basis to call Pat Buchanan an anti-semite. There were thousands of people who may have meant to vote for Gore but were "mislead" by the ballots, but if that's the case then they shouldn't be voting anyway. If anything, they should have ridden the bus with Jesse Jackson that day in Philadelphia so they could have been supervised. Bush won by far more than 537 votes in FL and if you believe Gore won the PV then know that in the western panhandle of FL there were more than enough votes to give Bush the PV nationally but their polls closed over confusion caused by the liberal media. Stop drinking the cool aid. Stop quoting your liberal friends. This is America where elections are decided by a majority of people in a majority of states rather than majority rules. This gives people in your state a greater say than people in Wyoming.

[justW353]

The state of Ohio was called as it should have been. The other networks refused to announce it in order to cause Bush to give his acceptance speech the next day at 3p.m. while everyone was at work instead of at the end of the election night or just before midnight. The mainstream media hates the GOP and MSNBC made an executive decision to move to the left about a year later. The candidates actually get the results before the news networks anyways so it's not like Bush or Kerry were waiting in suspense. Kerry didn't want to give Bush the full feeling of being reelected either and he was too much of a wimp to come out and admit defeat.

Then why did some networks call NV (ABC, CNN), but not OH?  After 2000, Kerry didn't want to concede so fast.  In the end, a reversal in OH would have put Kerry over the top. 

Bush didn't need Nevada to win and could've still won without it. Everything hinged on Ohio. Kerry maybe a dork, but he's not stupid and knows damn well Gore wasn't as close as perceived in FL and that there wasn't a single real problem with counting votes in 2000. Sure, he played that card to gain sympathy from moderates and the press, but the fact of the matter is Kerry knew 2000 wasn't as close as the democrats want you to believe. From my recollection, NV was called by everyone and Ohio was called by anyone who mattered.

Gore won the popular vote in 2000...The people who wanted Albert Gore to be President outnumbered those who wanted George Bush to be President.

Al Gore "lost" by 537 votes.  I find it hard to believe that 537 Jewish retirees in West Palm Beach would vote for an anti-semite like Pat Buchanan instead of Gore.

You know everything don't you LMAO! You have no proof or basis to call Pat Buchanan an anti-semite. There were thousands of people who may have meant to vote for Gore but were "mislead" by the ballots, but if that's the case then they shouldn't be voting anyway. If anything, they should have ridden the bus with Jesse Jackson that day in Philadelphia so they could have been supervised. Bush won by far more than 537 votes in FL and if you believe Gore won the PV then know that in the western panhandle of FL there were more than enough votes to give Bush the PV nationally but their polls closed over confusion caused by the liberal media. Stop drinking the cool aid. Stop quoting your liberal friends. This is America where elections are decided by a majority of people in a majority of states rather than majority rules. This gives people in your state a greater say than people in Wyoming.

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I'm dumbstruck and speechless right now.

[Derek]

It's ok just so you learn lol.

[justW353]

It's ok just so you learn lol.

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I'm dumbstruck and speechless right now.