Bush will re-instate the draft

[nomorelies]

I was surpised to learn that there is a bill in process about reinstating the draft.

I would like people to be aware of it. It can be found at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query. The number of the bill is HR 163

I think we should be paying attention to more than what is going on with the elections right now!

Below are the parts of the e-mail my friend sent that
I thought you would want to read.  She works for the
Government back east.  I am not sending
the complete e-mail as part was personal - but here
is what you will want to know about and the attachments
I was able to find - below is additional information my friend sent me:
==============================================

Of interest to anyone with a child (male or female) service age!!!

The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all
10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots
nationwide.

Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military
experts and influential members of congress are suggesting
that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq
and Afghanistan (and permanent state of war on terrorism)
proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.


Official purpose: A bill, entitled the Universal National
Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by
requiring that all young persons (age 18-26) in the United
States, including women, perform a period of military
service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of
the national defense and homeland security, and for other
purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee
on armed services.

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the
Vietnam era. College and Canada will not be options. In
December, 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border
declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft
dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs,
John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge,
the declaration involves a 30 point plan which implements,
among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people
entering and departing each country.

Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along
gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a
shelter.

Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until
the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until
the end of the academic year.

[nomorelies]

If the above link does not work try
http://thomas.loc.gov/

I heard a couple of guys on the radio this week discussing this and one said he had a 14 year old son that he hoped would not eventually have to go.  I can bearly remember WWII as I was a very small child.  But I recall people saying it had gotten down to if you had a trigger finger that worked you were would go before it was over unless you were in a critical Job.

Remember hearing about "Rosie the Riviter" those were women doing the mens jobs in the factorys.  I recall we even had to save cooking fat to turn in for the war effort and everything was rationed.  My Step Dad was a rural mail carrier and I recall him getting 8 flats in less than 50 miles one day because it was so hard to get new tires.

We need to fight terrorism.  But I am afraid under Bush we are creating more not less.  Should we be killing people in a nation we called a Sovereign Nation with a leader we installed?  There were no WMD and Saddam is gone.  We need to ask if in staying are we doing more harm than good.  Are our brave military being asked to die for what??

[Silent Hunter]

Nomo, read this please:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp

That bill:
a) Needs the backing of both Houses of Congress
b) The backing of the President

Neither of which will do it, because of the political unpopularity. It lapses in January anywhere.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

A couple of points here:

1. If the US hadn't had a draft in WWII, nomo would currently be speaking German.
2. (And I say this as someone who opposes the draft) The draft is actually a good thing from a pacifist perspective.  If going to war means sending your kids off to fight and possibly die, the people in general will be much more reluctant to go to war, and will only support one if it's absolutely vital for our security.
3. Whether or not the Iraq war was justified, there is still a war on terror.  It will still be going on regardless or who is elected in November, and the only alternative to pursuing states that support terror is to endure 9/11-type attacks on our soil (and the soil of other nations across the globe) on a daily basis.  In other words, it doesn't matter if Saddam is captured, and Iraq has freedom and Democracy and rainbows forever.  We still have a long fight ahead of us.

[MODU]

Bill is drafted by:

Rangel (D - NY)
McDermott (D - WA)
Conyers (D - MI)
Lewis (D - GA)
Stark (D - CA)
Abercrombie (D - HI)

The bill is a two-parter.  One part is about the draft, and the other is about a manditory 2-year service for all young adults 18-26 years old (such as we had talked about yesterday - the European method).

However, if you are going to spread the fear rhetoric about the draft and post a bill, you might want to read it first.  It's not Bush that wants to re-instate the draft . . . it's the Democrats.

[CARLHAYDEN]

If the above link does not work try
http://thomas.loc.gov/

I heard a couple of guys on the radio this week discussing this and one said he had a 14 year old son that he hoped would not eventually have to go.  I can bearly remember WWII as I was a very small child.  But I recall people saying it had gotten down to if you had a trigger finger that worked you were would go before it was over unless you were in a critical Job.

Remember hearing about "Rosie the Riviter" those were women doing the mens jobs in the factorys.  I recall we even had to save cooking fat to turn in for the war effort and everything was rationed.  My Step Dad was a rural mail carrier and I recall him getting 8 flats in less than 50 miles one day because it was so hard to get new tires.

We need to fight terrorism.  But I am afraid under Bush we are creating more not less.  Should we be killing people in a nation we called a Sovereign Nation with a leader we installed?  There were no WMD and Saddam is gone.  We need to ask if in staying are we doing more harm than good.  Are our brave military being asked to die for what??

Try looking at the sponsers of the legislation.

In the Senate, S. 89 is supported by Sen Hollings, a Democrat who is retiring.

In the House, HR 163 has six sponsors, ALL liberal Democrats (Rangel, McDermott, Conyers, Lewis, Stark aned Abercrombie).

So, it appears the draft is more likely to occur if Kerry should be elected.

[12th Doctor]

Bill is drafted by:

Rangel (D - NY)
McDermott (D - WA)
Conyers (D - MI)
Lewis (D - GA)
Stark (D - CA)
Abercrombie (D - HI)

The bill is a two-parter.  One part is about the draft, and the other is about a manditory 2-year service for all young adults 18-26 years old (such as we had talked about yesterday - the European method).

However, if you are going to spread the fear rhetoric about the draft and post a bill, you might want to read it first.  It's not Bush that wants to re-instate the draft . . . it's the Democrats.

Exactly what I was going to say.  Beat me to it.

[J. J.]

And I.

Did anyone ever consider that the most vocal advocate of re-instating the draft is Charles Rangel, the very liberal D from NYC and that the Pentagon opposes it.

Rangel is an ally of Kerry; maybe part of Kerry's plan for Iraq is to draft people to fight there.  We don't know because he's never stated the plan.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

And I.

Did anyone ever consider that the most vocal advocate of re-instating the draft is Charles Rangel, the very liberal D from NYC and that the Pentagon opposes it.

Rangel is an ally of Kerry; maybe part of Kerry's plan for Iraq is to draft people to fight there.  We don't know because he's never stated the plan.

Kerry supports the use of the draft to aid in the war in Iraq.
Kerry is also opposed to the use of the draft to aid in the war in Iraq.

[Light Touch]

Charlie Rangel is a P.O.S.

That's all I have on that.

[Reds4]

Very low of the Dems to try to scare college voters away from Bush, I saw the Dems in Arizona (maybe other states too) had handed out papers saying don't vote for Bush or you'll be drafted. Sad.

[James Falconer]

The draft is wrong always. Even in World War 2. You cannot just force people to fight your war, that's not justifiable.

Many people volunteered, and when Dec 7th, 1941 happened, many people did just that (including Bush 41). There was no need for a draft. The people decided that this war had to be fought.

A drafted army is an army that does not want to be there. I would of hated it and if I was drafted, I would happily go to Canada or tell the man at the physical that I was gay, a dope smoker and a Communist. Dead is dead, no matter how honorable it was.

Since WW2, the USA has killed about 100,000 personel due to silly and needless conflicts. The USA military is one that is already the strongest in the world, not to mention the most educated.

Thank God I am too old for the draft.

Senor

[MODU]

I've passed any draft age, and my IRR has also lapsed.  However, if we ever got to the point that the military was desperate for qualified shipboard engineers, I would dust off my boiler suit and hit the seas again.  I'd just have to make sure I brought my engineer books with me . . . since I've forgotten a lot of the technical aspects over the years.

Mmmmmm . . . I'd love to get back on a good D-type steam boiler-powered ship again.  However, I think I'd end up on a GT (gas turbine), and sit around reading gauges all day.  Not as fun.

[nomorelies]

Well Republicans can spin it all they want.

You know as much about the draft as i do.

I showed you an account of the e-mail.

Bush will do this. i guarantee.

BLAME EUROPE
- he say that because our allies wont send troops that he has to invade Iran as they have a nuclear weapon.

INVADE IRAN AS THEY WONT NEGIOTIATE WITH BUSH
-Iran has said it will not negiotiate with the UN while Bush remains President. WHY? becasue bush invaded a soveign state that didnt hav wmds. Iran believes it should protect itself as they dont trust bush whether or not they have wmds.

TROOPS STRETCHED ALREADY
- the only alternaitve is the draft. Due to North Korea having wmds, troops are needed in South Korea. Plus Iraqi forces refuse to fight for their freedom (42% of Iraqi want Saddam as President)

KERRY WILL GET TROOPS FROM EUROPE
-polls say that Iraq is bushs problem . you started it so why should we help you. If Kerry elected european independent polls have shown that France, Germany etc would send troops if Kerry was President under te UN.

WHY CANT COUNTRIES BACK KERRY
-1992 bush senior used Britain to check files on Clinton. Due to this it was issued that no country is allowed to play politics by backing a candidate.

[MODU]

KERRY WILL GET TROOPS FROM EUROPE
-polls say that Iraq is bushs problem . you started it so why should we help you. If Kerry elected european independent polls have shown that France, Germany etc would send troops if Kerry was President under te UN.

Actually, that is incorrect.  France has already stated that they will not send troops to Iraq no matter who is President.  Germany does not have any spare troops which they can send out of country.  The Second-tier European nations already have troops in Iraq.  The only way to get additional European-nation troops into Iraq is if NATO agrees to it, and they haven't.  However, NATO has agreed to train the Iraqi troops, which will then be used to defend their own nation.

Son, you really need to do your homework.

(Oh, and what is this about Kerry being the President of the UN???  Are they doing us a favor by getting him out of US politics, or was that a type?   )

[KEmperor]

Well Republicans can spin it all they want.

You know as much about the draft as i do.

I showed you an account of the e-mail.

Bush will do this. i guarantee.

Spin it?  It's the DEMOCRATS, that are trying to put it through Congress, why don't you look at who wrote the bill, and is sponsering the bill?

Exactly.  I don't see how it's spin when its a matter of public record that the only congressmen supporting this are a handful of liberal DEMOCRATS!!!  You are letting your Bush hatred blind you to reality again...

[nomorelies]

rANGEL PUT THE DRAFT THROUGH AS HE DISAGREED WITH THE WAR IN IRAQ.

that was 2 years ago.

Bush needs troops so where he going to get them from?

The world no

USA

[nomorelies]

When Bush wants something the Reps agree.

The Republicans would approve the draft as the bush admin would spin it so that they have to get troops into IRAN.

This is happening.

Welcome to the Ostrich party

[nomorelies]

Hows Bush going to invade Iran?

[Brambila]

Nomo, the bill was drafted by liberal democrats, not republicans. Bush has stated over and over again he would not reinstitute it.

[teri]

When Bush wants something the Reps agree.

The Republicans would approve the draft as the bush admin would spin it so that they have to get troops into IRAN.

This is happening.

Welcome to the Ostrich party

One of these days, after reading one of Nomos posts, I fully expect that my head will explode.  

The Republicans will not reinstate the draft for a variety of reasons.  First & foremost because it is an ineffective way to staff a professional military. A career solider does not want to fight next to someone who didn't volunteer.

Love him or Hate him, Rumsfeld has a good plan to modernize the service. The draft will not be needed even if we go into Iran.

[Defarge]

No, he won't, unless the sh**t really begins to hit the fan, and regardless of what you think of Bush, that probably won't happen

[John Dibble]

Bush won't reinstate the draft - either the Bush family would be disowned by the Republicans(killing their political power) or it would be the death of the Republican party.

[MN-Troy]

NoMoreLies,

The subject of a military draft was brought up in the debate forum and you replied to the topic:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?board=20;action=display;threadid=8979;start=30

The idea of draft under President Bush has been debunked. Let it go.

[NYGOP]

There will be NO draft. You would need to be a moron to believe so. We have more than enough troops to meet our needs. Where did you even come up with the idea that we need more soldiers?

I know a lot of recruiters and the ROTC instructors at the school where I teach. All say that a draft would be ridiculous. Recruiters are not even seeking more potential troops at this point. They have a steadier stream of recruits now than they've had since the eighties. When you see recuiters out on the streets trying to sign people up, you might have something to be worried about. Until then, shut your uninformed mouth.