For those who questioned the vulnerability of Deval Patrick
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  For those who questioned the vulnerability of Deval Patrick
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Author Topic: For those who questioned the vulnerability of Deval Patrick  (Read 4577 times)
Dan the Roman
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« on: March 04, 2009, 02:16:57 PM »

Surveyusa has a new post-budget, post-gas tax poll out:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=ec541621-1058-44e8-9c6f-07d683abf0a2'

28% Approve
68% Disapprove

Also the gas tax hasn't even gone up yet, and he is about to resubmit a budget relying on Casinos to the Legislature.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 02:25:56 PM »

Another one-term governor would make quite the streak, wouldn't it?
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officepark
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 04:09:50 PM »

I am pleasantly surprised.
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Holmes
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 04:33:36 PM »

So what's the deal here? I don't know anything about this guy so why's he so unpopular?
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 05:01:29 PM »

So what are governors like Ted Strickland doing right that governors like Paterson and Patrick are doing wrong?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2009, 05:05:02 PM »

So what are governors like Ted Strickland doing right that governors like Paterson and Patrick are doing wrong?

Well there's one obvious point of difference between Strickland on the one hand and Paterson and Patrick on 'tuther... Tongue
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Brittain33
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2009, 05:18:38 PM »

My eyes are bugging out of my head. This is crazy, and yes, all that has happened is that he proposed a gas tax while the Turnpike Authority is simultaneously raising tolls through the roof.

I still don't see who is going to beat him in a primary or the general. The gas tax sure isn't going to hurt him with the liberal base and the Republicans have no one who can touch him. Also, everyone knows that it's either a gas tax or tolls, so it would take a kamikaze candidate to pretend that we have no financial problem.
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Meeker
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2009, 07:31:38 PM »

So what are governors like Ted Strickland doing right that governors like Paterson and Patrick are doing wrong?

Well there's one obvious point of difference between Strickland on the one hand and Paterson and Patrick on 'tuther... Tongue

Wait - Strickland's gay?
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Lunar
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 07:43:01 PM »

So what are governors like Ted Strickland doing right that governors like Paterson and Patrick are doing wrong?

My guess is that some states are rather top-heavy in an expensive bureaucratic mess that's impossible to streamline during a recession... 

Say, this man paid almost six figures a year in Albany to listen to music, talk to no one, and count cars:
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=767070
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2009, 07:47:50 PM »

Patrick(and Patterson) has two problems Strickland does not.

1. He's personally abrasive. Patrick thinks he is god's gift to mankind and believes his own crap about being a savior of the left. He treats with contempt those that don't show him "the proper respect"(ie. Martha Coakley, Tim Cahill, Therese Murray, Sal Dimasi) and as a result has almost no friends. Compromise is beneath him, and as a result he as arguably less influence with the legislature than several of his Republican predecessors.

2. He's politically tone-deaf. Even if you have terrible ideas or fail to have them implemented as Patrick does, you can still spin it well. He does the opposite, seemingly working hard to convince people he dosen't care. Last summer when he tried to push Casinos, he left the state while they were being debated on Beacon Hill to meet with publishers for his autobiography in New York City.

More recently he has just decided to take a trip to Jamaica in the middle of the worst budget crisis in decades. Britain may be right that there aren't good options between the gas tax and the tolls, but it looks like Patrick doesn't care when he announces tax increases from the beach.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2009, 08:47:34 PM »

So what are governors like Ted Strickland doing right that governors like Paterson and Patrick are doing wrong?

My guess is that some states are rather top-heavy in an expensive bureaucratic mess that's impossible to streamline during a recession... 

Say, this man paid almost six figures a year in Albany to listen to music, talk to no one, and count cars:
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=767070


Could it also be that since MA, NY and CA have more progressive tax structure they suffer larger contractions in the tax base so thus there budgets are harder to deal with then other states. It makes sense since the rich have more height to fall from.

Lets do a comparison
A guy making 30,000 pays 5% state income tax loses job and collects only 20,000 in Unemployment or takes a lesser paying job at that amount. A drop from 1500 to 1000 in taxe revenue for the state. A guy making 200,000 pays 10% state income tax loses his job gets 134,000 in Unemployment or gets a new job making that much. A drop from 20,000 in tax revenue to 13,400. There is also the chance they fall to a lower tax bracket and now pays 8% that puts the tax revenue from that person at 10,720 almost half what was originally collected in taxes from that individual. Thus states that are liberal and thus have more progressive tax rates and are full of "rich" people suffer a greater decline in revenue then states with flatter rates.
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2009, 11:09:56 PM »

Massachusetts has a flat tax.  nice try though.
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Nym90
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2009, 11:34:51 PM »

Massachusetts has a flat tax.  nice try though.

Doesn't "Taxachusetts" actually have only the 37th highest taxes of any state or some such?
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Brittain33
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 10:44:58 AM »

Massachusetts has a flat tax.  nice try though.

Yes, and we have one of the best-balanced tax structures in the country. Low sales tax with exemptions for groceries and clothes, middling-to-low property taxes, and moderate income taxes with a higher rate on investment income. California should be so lucky.
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Erc
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 01:15:51 PM »

My eyes are bugging out of my head. This is crazy, and yes, all that has happened is that he proposed a gas tax while the Turnpike Authority is simultaneously raising tolls through the roof.

Not that people have necessarily caught this, but wasn't the plan that the Turnpike Authority would cancel / roll back the toll increases if the gas tax passed?  Or am I being deluded here...
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officepark
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2009, 02:46:30 PM »

Massachusetts has a flat tax.  nice try though.

Yes, and we have one of the best-balanced tax structures in the country. Low sales tax with exemptions for groceries and clothes, middling-to-low property taxes, and moderate income taxes with a higher rate on investment income. California should be so lucky.

I have heard that Massachusetts has a 5% sales tax, and no extra local taxes.
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2009, 03:03:12 PM »

Massachusetts has a flat tax.  nice try though.

Yes, and we have one of the best-balanced tax structures in the country. Low sales tax with exemptions for groceries and clothes, middling-to-low property taxes, and moderate income taxes with a higher rate on investment income. California should be so lucky.

I have heard that Massachusetts has a 5% sales tax, and no extra local taxes.

Well no local sales taxes, but it does have local property taxes. Capped though and can only be raised by referendum.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2009, 03:06:31 PM »

So what are governors like Ted Strickland doing right that governors like Paterson and Patrick are doing wrong?

Well there's one obvious point of difference between Strickland on the one hand and Paterson and Patrick on 'tuther... Tongue

lol
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Brittain33
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2009, 03:07:13 PM »

My eyes are bugging out of my head. This is crazy, and yes, all that has happened is that he proposed a gas tax while the Turnpike Authority is simultaneously raising tolls through the roof.

Not that people have necessarily caught this, but wasn't the plan that the Turnpike Authority would cancel / roll back the toll increases if the gas tax passed?  Or am I being deluded here...

Yes, it is. I don't pay tolls regularly so I'm not in touch with the anger here, only what I read in the newspapers. I'm trying to account for what could piss off every non-liberal-Democrat in the state at the same time.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2009, 03:17:17 PM »

Here's a uni poll from two weeks ago showing Patrick up 48%-36%.

http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2009/02/20/kennedy-kerry-patrick-job-ratings-are-up?blog=53

Survey USA a year ago had Patrick about even (45%-46%) and Democrats absolutely romped in state elections that year. Massachusetts has split tickets before.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=8cb50e1e-af2c-4c38-87d8-a21b9214ef3a
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2009, 05:58:00 PM »

Cahill is looking at the race, interestingly hinting that he is looking at an Independent run in the general as well a primary challenge.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/05/cahill_considers_run_for_governor/

I personally have heard rumors he is in talks with the GOP about a party switch/challenge, especially as its looking far from clear that Charlie Baker will run.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2009, 08:53:47 AM »

Cahill is looking at the race, interestingly hinting that he is looking at an Independent run in the general as well a primary challenge.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/05/cahill_considers_run_for_governor/

I personally have heard rumors he is in talks with the GOP about a party switch/challenge, especially as its looking far from clear that Charlie Baker will run.

What do you think would be his platform? He's been limited to talking about gambling, which doesn't differentiate him from Patrick sufficiently.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2009, 02:13:14 PM »

I just heart the living hell out of Cahill.  I'd vote for him as a Democrat, Republican, or Indy.

What do you think would be his platform? He's been limited to talking about gambling, which doesn't differentiate him from Patrick sufficiently.

At the very least, I'd imagine that Cahill would actually fight for a gambling bill, as opposed to Patrick, who watched it die an undignified death from some publishing house conference room in New York City.

In any case, Cahill has better timing.  And as they say, timing is everything.

My eyes are bugging out of my head. This is crazy, and yes, all that has happened is that he proposed a gas tax while the Turnpike Authority is simultaneously raising tolls through the roof.

Not that people have necessarily caught this, but wasn't the plan that the Turnpike Authority would cancel / roll back the toll increases if the gas tax passed?  Or am I being deluded here...

Yes, it is. I don't pay tolls regularly so I'm not in touch with the anger here, only what I read in the newspapers. I'm trying to account for what could piss off every non-liberal-Democrat in the state at the same time.

The Turnpike Authority should be saluted for f***ing over Patrick in the worst way here.  I doubt a single person in the state actually believes that tolls will be rolled back if/when the gas tax bill is passed.  Very few people (less than 20%, if I recall the poll correctly) support the idea of having a higher gas tax to stop the toll increases, and few people even realize the higher gas tax will pay for anything else.

And it's not a minor tax, either.  Massachusetts would go from one of the lowest gas taxes in the nation to one of the highest in one fell swoop.

In other words, people are pissed off that they're going to have to pay through the nose in new taxes for a road they seldom if ever use.  And the people who actually do use the road are pissed that they'll have to pay insanely higher tolls (doubled, in some cases) and for a new gas tax to boot.

I understand that something needs to be done, but the PR campaign for the thing has been atrocious.

(Meanwhile, the state unemployment system is a mess, but I won't even start to get into that here.)
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2009, 08:40:05 PM »

Massachusetts has a flat tax.  nice try though.

Doesn't "Taxachusetts" actually have only the 37th highest taxes of any state or some such?

Sorry for my mistake. The state's reputation as Taxachusetts still exists but they have appearently made progress. My example was rather lame I will admit that but I was right Massachusetts does have a high tax on the rich(through investments) meaning that in times of contraction like know revenues take a dive. In this case its more obvious why since the stock market has dropped so much. People aren't making any capital gains unless they trade day to day in which case they are small. Dividends are being slashed by cashed strapped corporations.

My point wasn't that there taxes are too high, quite the contrary. My point was in times of economic contractions the state's most relient on the rich to support there budget suffer the biggest deficits.
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Smash255
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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2009, 09:29:55 PM »

Massachusetts has a flat tax.  nice try though.

Doesn't "Taxachusetts" actually have only the 37th highest taxes of any state or some such?

Sorry for my mistake. The state's reputation as Taxachusetts still exists but they have appearently made progress. My example was rather lame I will admit that but I was right Massachusetts does have a high tax on the rich(through investments) meaning that in times of contraction like know revenues take a dive. In this case its more obvious why since the stock market has dropped so much. People aren't making any capital gains unless they trade day to day in which case they are small. Dividends are being slashed by cashed strapped corporations.

My point wasn't that there taxes are too high, quite the contrary. My point was in times of economic contractions the state's most relient on the rich to support there budget suffer the biggest deficits.

It really was never true to begin with, it was basically a Republican lie repeated so many times that it stuck.
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