"Snapshots" of English pronunciation

[12th Doctor]

Now, the closest living relative of English is Frisian, but it has undergone a number of changes, some making it similar to English, some making it different.  Icelandic is pretty close to what the Anglo-Saxons were speaking 1000 years ago.

[afleitch]

Where is the rawest, least corrupted dialect of English spoken?  Scotland?

What is spoken in Scotland is a mesh of Scots and English. Scots was at one point as distant from English as Dutch was from German, however political union, the increase in written and printable English etc saw the distance diminish. Spoken 'Scots-English' in Scotland is however distinct in a manner of ways and in areas around Aberdeen especially, the words, pronunciation, pace, sentence structure can be so diverse it can be very difficult to understand to the untrained ear.

As for 'Old Scots' - I can read it and speak it. But the occasion often calls for neither

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well, it wasn't quite like that.  "Accents" or more properly "dialects" vary quite a bit all over Britain.

They're mostly more accents than dialects these days, sadly (you can blame mass culture for that). And once upon a time, more than that really. The distinctive words don't get used so often, even where the accents remain strong.

One thing I always find very sad is the death (within the lifetime of my parents, not even my grandparents) of the traditional calls to animals; they were probably older than almost any English word still in use.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Now, the closest living relative of English is Frisian, but it has undergone a number of changes, some making it similar to English, some making it different.

I was informed the other day (no idea if it's true) that people in Frisia drink tea. I laughed for slightly too long...

[afleitch]

One thing I always find very sad is the death (within the lifetime of my parents, not even my grandparents) of the traditional calls to animals; they were probably older than almost any English word still in use.

Very true. I've heard about the words used by Cumbrian farmers to call or animals, or to count them. They are 'cumbric' indeed...

For anyone who can access - this is a great site

http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/recordings/

It gives audio examples etc of different words/accents used across Britain

[12th Doctor]

Well, it wasn't quite like that.  "Accents" or more properly "dialects" vary quite a bit all over Britain.

They're mostly more accents than dialects these days, sadly (you can blame mass culture for that). And once upon a time, more than that really. The distinctive words don't get used so often, even where the accents remain strong.

One thing I always find very sad is the death (within the lifetime of my parents, not even my grandparents) of the traditional calls to animals; they were probably older than almost any English word still in use.

Of course, as much of "edge" of British English has been shaved down by, of all things, the influence of American mass media.  However, even today, the dialect variances you find in Britain are far greater than those in the Unites States.

As Americans, we often fall under the misconception that, only in America are people speaking these "bastardized" dialects, because when we learn "French", or "Italian" there is only one French or Italian language and everyone there speak that, right?  

As I am sure you well know, yes, there is a standard Italian that is used by the government, and media, but a 5 year old child from Turin and a five year old child from Naples would not be able to have a conversation.  At that age, all they have been exposed to is their local dialects, and the local dialects in those places are so different from one another as to be almost mutually unintelligible, and yet they are both still under the umbrella of "Italian".  Now, kids are malleable, and they would be able to pick up on one another's speech pretty quickly, but it would still take a while.

[afleitch]

True. I can still remember when at school someone being told using the word 'mockit' meaning dirty, in a sentence was wrong, as it wasn't 'talking proper'. Heaven forbid had he actually wrote it down.

[12th Doctor]

Or an even better example would be Arabic.  In the West, we look on a map and see that almost the entire Muslim world speaks one language; "Arabic".  And the hot new trend for your career path is to learn to speak "Arabic".

But what we think of as Modern Standard Arabic, which is used in that region in the Quran, print and news media is not what people there actually speak.  In reality, what someone is Morocco is speaking is totally different from what someone in Egypt is speaking.  Modern Standard Arabic is used in that region the way Latin was used in Europe in the Middle Ages, but just like with that situation, most of what is spoken on the ground has diverged considerably in the last 1000 years.

Even people who understand that there is a difference will often say that "well, you have Egyptian Arabic, and Gulf Arabic, and those are different dialects."  Well, those two "dialects" are at least as different from one another as French and Spanish, and yet we call those "languages."

[A18]

Question?  Based off of what I know, you create the characters you used with Alt Gr... but when I try to use Alt Gr... well, first I don't have an Alt Gr just another Alt, but mine only opens up window options.  How can I access those characters?

You can use the standard United States–International keyboard layout, but I doubt you'll like what it does to your quotation-mark button.

Do you have Vista? If so, I recommend installing this tool, which will allow you to create custom keyboard layouts.

[ilikeverin]

Or an even better example would be Arabic.  In the West, we look on a map and see that almost the entire Muslim world speaks one language; "Arabic".  And the hot new trend for your career path is to learn to speak "Arabic".

But what we think of as Modern Standard Arabic, which is used in that region in the Quran, print and news media is not what people there actually speak.  In reality, what someone is Morocco is speaking is totally different from what someone in Egypt is speaking.  Modern Standard Arabic is used in that region the way Latin was used in Europe in the Middle Ages, but just like with that situation, most of what is spoken on the ground has diverged considerably in the last 1000 years.

Even people who understand that there is a difference will often say that "well, you have Egyptian Arabic, and Gulf Arabic, and those are different dialects."  Well, those two "dialects" are at least as different from one another as French and Spanish, and yet we call those "languages."

Still, Standard Arabic is fairly widely understood, and writing is always in the "Standard".

Question?  Based off of what I know, you create the characters you used with Alt Gr... but when I try to use Alt Gr... well, first I don't have an Alt Gr just another Alt, but mine only opens up window options.  How can I access those characters?

You can use the standard United States–International keyboard layout, but I doubt you'll like what it does to your quotation-mark button.

It took me about a week or two to get totally used to pressing a spacebar anytime after I just want an apostrophe or quotation mark.

[afleitch]

I noticed earlier talk of the 'vowel shift.' There were some shifts in Scotland, but others didn't. The best example is the little phrase 'bread and water'. Bread is pronounced the same as the word 'breed' and watters is pronounced in parts of Scotland with the same 'a' sound in the German word for it; 'wasser'.

[12th Doctor]

Or an even better example would be Arabic.  In the West, we look on a map and see that almost the entire Muslim world speaks one language; "Arabic".  And the hot new trend for your career path is to learn to speak "Arabic".

But what we think of as Modern Standard Arabic, which is used in that region in the Quran, print and news media is not what people there actually speak.  In reality, what someone is Morocco is speaking is totally different from what someone in Egypt is speaking.  Modern Standard Arabic is used in that region the way Latin was used in Europe in the Middle Ages, but just like with that situation, most of what is spoken on the ground has diverged considerably in the last 1000 years.

Even people who understand that there is a difference will often say that "well, you have Egyptian Arabic, and Gulf Arabic, and those are different dialects."  Well, those two "dialects" are at least as different from one another as French and Spanish, and yet we call those "languages."

Still, Standard Arabic is fairly widely understood, and writing is always in the "Standard".

Question?  Based off of what I know, you create the characters you used with Alt Gr... but when I try to use Alt Gr... well, first I don't have an Alt Gr just another Alt, but mine only opens up window options.  How can I access those characters?

You can use the standard United States–International keyboard layout, but I doubt you'll like what it does to your quotation-mark button.

It took me about a week or two to get totally used to pressing a spacebar anytime after I just want an apostrophe or quotation mark.

Standard Arabic is widely understood by educated males.  It is not widely understood by the lower classes, women and children.

Also, yeah, the writing system is Arabic, but English is written in Latin.  So?

[12th Doctor]

Question?  Based off of what I know, you create the characters you used with Alt Gr... but when I try to use Alt Gr... well, first I don't have an Alt Gr just another Alt, but mine only opens up window options.  How can I access those characters?

You can use the standard United States–International keyboard layout, but I doubt you'll like what it does to your quotation-mark button.

Do you have Vista? If so, I recommend installing this tool, which will allow you to create custom keyboard layouts.

I do have Vista.  How would I swtich my layout to United States International?

[ilikeverin]

Or an even better example would be Arabic.  In the West, we look on a map and see that almost the entire Muslim world speaks one language; "Arabic".  And the hot new trend for your career path is to learn to speak "Arabic".

But what we think of as Modern Standard Arabic, which is used in that region in the Quran, print and news media is not what people there actually speak.  In reality, what someone is Morocco is speaking is totally different from what someone in Egypt is speaking.  Modern Standard Arabic is used in that region the way Latin was used in Europe in the Middle Ages, but just like with that situation, most of what is spoken on the ground has diverged considerably in the last 1000 years.

Even people who understand that there is a difference will often say that "well, you have Egyptian Arabic, and Gulf Arabic, and those are different dialects."  Well, those two "dialects" are at least as different from one another as French and Spanish, and yet we call those "languages."

Still, Standard Arabic is fairly widely understood, and writing is always in the "Standard".

Question?  Based off of what I know, you create the characters you used with Alt Gr... but when I try to use Alt Gr... well, first I don't have an Alt Gr just another Alt, but mine only opens up window options.  How can I access those characters?

You can use the standard United States–International keyboard layout, but I doubt you'll like what it does to your quotation-mark button.

It took me about a week or two to get totally used to pressing a spacebar anytime after I just want an apostrophe or quotation mark.

Standard Arabic is widely understood by educated males.  It is not widely understood by the lower classes, women and children.

Also, yeah, the writing system is Arabic, but English is written in Latin.  So?

No, it's not just that the writing system is Arabic, it's that the writing itself is in Standard Arabic.  They don't write in dialect.  It would be like if we wrote in Old English and spoke what we do now.

[12th Doctor]

Or an even better example would be Arabic.  In the West, we look on a map and see that almost the entire Muslim world speaks one language; "Arabic".  And the hot new trend for your career path is to learn to speak "Arabic".

But what we think of as Modern Standard Arabic, which is used in that region in the Quran, print and news media is not what people there actually speak.  In reality, what someone is Morocco is speaking is totally different from what someone in Egypt is speaking.  Modern Standard Arabic is used in that region the way Latin was used in Europe in the Middle Ages, but just like with that situation, most of what is spoken on the ground has diverged considerably in the last 1000 years.

Even people who understand that there is a difference will often say that "well, you have Egyptian Arabic, and Gulf Arabic, and those are different dialects."  Well, those two "dialects" are at least as different from one another as French and Spanish, and yet we call those "languages."

Still, Standard Arabic is fairly widely understood, and writing is always in the "Standard".

Question?  Based off of what I know, you create the characters you used with Alt Gr... but when I try to use Alt Gr... well, first I don't have an Alt Gr just another Alt, but mine only opens up window options.  How can I access those characters?

You can use the standard United States–International keyboard layout, but I doubt you'll like what it does to your quotation-mark button.

It took me about a week or two to get totally used to pressing a spacebar anytime after I just want an apostrophe or quotation mark.

Standard Arabic is widely understood by educated males.  It is not widely understood by the lower classes, women and children.

Also, yeah, the writing system is Arabic, but English is written in Latin.  So?

No, it's not just that the writing system is Arabic, it's that the writing itself is in Standard Arabic.  They don't write in dialect.  It would be like if we wrote in Old English and spoke what we do now.

Oh, yes.  They wouldn't ever think to write in a local dialect.  But, writing isn't language.  It is a visual representation of language.  The actual language situation there is quite fractious.

[ilikeverin]

Or an even better example would be Arabic.  In the West, we look on a map and see that almost the entire Muslim world speaks one language; "Arabic".  And the hot new trend for your career path is to learn to speak "Arabic".

But what we think of as Modern Standard Arabic, which is used in that region in the Quran, print and news media is not what people there actually speak.  In reality, what someone is Morocco is speaking is totally different from what someone in Egypt is speaking.  Modern Standard Arabic is used in that region the way Latin was used in Europe in the Middle Ages, but just like with that situation, most of what is spoken on the ground has diverged considerably in the last 1000 years.

Even people who understand that there is a difference will often say that "well, you have Egyptian Arabic, and Gulf Arabic, and those are different dialects."  Well, those two "dialects" are at least as different from one another as French and Spanish, and yet we call those "languages."

Still, Standard Arabic is fairly widely understood, and writing is always in the "Standard".

Question?  Based off of what I know, you create the characters you used with Alt Gr... but when I try to use Alt Gr... well, first I don't have an Alt Gr just another Alt, but mine only opens up window options.  How can I access those characters?

You can use the standard United States–International keyboard layout, but I doubt you'll like what it does to your quotation-mark button.

It took me about a week or two to get totally used to pressing a spacebar anytime after I just want an apostrophe or quotation mark.

Standard Arabic is widely understood by educated males.  It is not widely understood by the lower classes, women and children.

Also, yeah, the writing system is Arabic, but English is written in Latin.  So?

No, it's not just that the writing system is Arabic, it's that the writing itself is in Standard Arabic.  They don't write in dialect.  It would be like if we wrote in Old English and spoke what we do now.

Oh, yes.  They wouldn't ever think to write in a local dialect.  But, writing isn't language.

No, but I was just making the point that learning Arabic in schools isn't totally useless, especially if you're, say, a religious studies major and want to read the original Quran... or if you're ordering from a menu or looking at shops or trying to read a book.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I write differently to how I speak. A gap between writing and speaking isn't that unusual.

[afleitch]

I write differently to how I speak. A gap between writing and speaking isn't that unusual.

I've often wondered how you speak.

[paul718]

Now, the closest living relative of English is Frisian, but it has undergone a number of changes, some making it similar to English, some making it different.  Icelandic is pretty close to what the Anglo-Saxons were speaking 1000 years ago.

Here's a video of a guy using Old English to try and communicate with a Frisian. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeC1yAaWG34

Especially the part where the farmer says, "You want to milk her...You want the brown cow in England to milk."  Though I think he might actually be trying to speak English there. 

[12th Doctor]

I write differently to how I speak. A gap between writing and speaking isn't that unusual.

True.  But you aren't writing in Old English.  That is what this situation would be roughly equivalent to.

[12th Doctor]

Now, the closest living relative of English is Frisian, but it has undergone a number of changes, some making it similar to English, some making it different.  Icelandic is pretty close to what the Anglo-Saxons were speaking 1000 years ago.

Here's a video of a guy using Old English to try and communicate with a Frisian. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeC1yAaWG34

Especially the part where the farmer says, "You want to milk her...You want the brown cow in England to milk."  Though I think he might actually be trying to speak English there. 

He is cheating a bit, though.  In that conversation, he is sticking specifically to words that have changed little between the two.  Some of the vocabulary in Frisian and English is very similar, even today.  However, there is wide divergence in other areas.

[12th Doctor]

Or an even better example would be Arabic.  In the West, we look on a map and see that almost the entire Muslim world speaks one language; "Arabic".  And the hot new trend for your career path is to learn to speak "Arabic".

But what we think of as Modern Standard Arabic, which is used in that region in the Quran, print and news media is not what people there actually speak.  In reality, what someone is Morocco is speaking is totally different from what someone in Egypt is speaking.  Modern Standard Arabic is used in that region the way Latin was used in Europe in the Middle Ages, but just like with that situation, most of what is spoken on the ground has diverged considerably in the last 1000 years.

Even people who understand that there is a difference will often say that "well, you have Egyptian Arabic, and Gulf Arabic, and those are different dialects."  Well, those two "dialects" are at least as different from one another as French and Spanish, and yet we call those "languages."

Still, Standard Arabic is fairly widely understood, and writing is always in the "Standard".

Question?  Based off of what I know, you create the characters you used with Alt Gr... but when I try to use Alt Gr... well, first I don't have an Alt Gr just another Alt, but mine only opens up window options.  How can I access those characters?

You can use the standard United States–International keyboard layout, but I doubt you'll like what it does to your quotation-mark button.

It took me about a week or two to get totally used to pressing a spacebar anytime after I just want an apostrophe or quotation mark.

Standard Arabic is widely understood by educated males.  It is not widely understood by the lower classes, women and children.

Also, yeah, the writing system is Arabic, but English is written in Latin.  So?

No, it's not just that the writing system is Arabic, it's that the writing itself is in Standard Arabic.  They don't write in dialect.  It would be like if we wrote in Old English and spoke what we do now.

Oh, yes.  They wouldn't ever think to write in a local dialect.  But, writing isn't language.

No, but I was just making the point that learning Arabic in schools isn't totally useless, especially if you're, say, a religious studies major and want to read the original Quran... or if you're ordering from a menu or looking at shops or trying to read a book.

I didn't mean to imply it was useless.  My point was about the huge divergence of the spoken language.  You are, of course, correct on your points.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Here is an interesting quote of what science speak would be like if we were to ignore all foreign influences on English (as in Latin, Greek, French...) using the Germanic terms instead

The firststuffs have their being as motes called unclefts. These are mighty small: one seedweight of waterstuff holds a tale of them like unto two followed by twenty-two naughts. Most unclefts link together to make what are called bulkbits. Thus, the waterstuff bulkbit bestands of two waterstuff unclefts, the sourstuff bulkbit of two sourstuff unclefts, and so on. (Some kinds, such as sunstuff, keep alone; others, such as iron, cling together in chills when in the fast standing; and there are yet more yokeways.) When unlike unclefts link in a bulkbit, they make bindings. Thus, water is a binding of two waterstuff unclefts with one sourstuff uncleft, while a bulkbit of one of the forestuffs making up flesh may have a thousand or more unclefts of these two firststuffs together with coalstuff and chokestuff.

It becomes a completely different language.

excuse me

It becomes a wholly other speech.

[Torie]

http://facweb.furman.edu/~mmenzer/gvs/dialogue.htm

Strangely fascinating.

Thanks so much Philip for putting all of this up. It is really fascinating. The best thing about this site, is we have so many posters interested and knowledgeable in such a variety of interesting topics, who share.  Kudos.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Some of the Germanic terms in English are interesting... many of them we use all the time.. some of them we wouldn't dare use...

It would be cool to use the word "Witenmoot" for parliament.