I'm Not an "End Times" Enthusiast But Does Anyone Else Find It Worrying...

[12th Doctor]

How much the European Union throws around the "Tower of Babel" and "Europa Riding the Bull" image, with such flagrant impunity?

Seriously.  The European Parliament building in Strasbourg is modeled directly after the popular image of the Tower of Babel.  And outside of it, and many other European Union buildings, the image of the woman riding the beast is prominent.

I'm not saying this is a sign of the end times, but come on....

[Purple State]

Not end times. God will just rain fiery death on their major cities when he so feels the whim.

[Alcon]

Google's not much help.  Someone's gonna have to explain this one.

[12th Doctor]

Google's not much help.  Someone's gonna have to explain this one.

European Parliament



Tower of Babel by Pieter Bruegel the Elder



People who have worked on the project, and people in the EU government have stated that this painting was the inspiration for the building, claiming that the theme of "many languages speaking with one voice" was the notion behind it.

Other EU officials and people who worked on the project have claimed that the design of the building was merely inspired by the Colosseum (which is just weird... I mean, why)... which is interesting, because so was the design in Bruegel's painting.

Then we have this image, in a poster to promote the EU...



Statue of Europa Riding the Bull Outside EU Parliament



It is an image that has become very popular in Europe as a symbol for Europe in general and the EU in particular.

 

It's based off the Greek myth of Europa.  But it is also, quite undoubtedly, a woman riding a beast.  Wouldn't draw a raised eyebrow from me, except that it is now the more or less accepted symbol for the EU.

[Alcon]

Well, I don't really find the Europa thing that surprising.  That's how Europa is always depicted.

Viewed in an isolated vacuum, I supposed I'd find it weird.  But there is a ton of EU imagery, and a ton of Biblical imagery and symbolism.  I'm not even sure I understand how the Tower of Babel directly relates to End Times?  National unification?

This doesn't really raise my eyebrows.  Or even my emulated biblical-literalist eyebrows.  I can't imagine there aren't hundreds of exually tenous symbolical examples from history.  With the full concession that I don't understand the strength of the Biblical connections here, and am judging this under the assumption that there is a ton of EU symbolism around to be potentially analagous...

(And the obvious additional caveat that I believe none of this which probably contributes to my worry level )

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The beast being riden in Revelation is definately a union of political power.  If you read Daniel's vision of the four different beasts (Dan ch 7), you'll see that the beast in Revelation is simply a merger of Daniel's four beasts.

Also, in Daniel ch 7, one of the four beasts was a lion with eagle's wings.  The eagle's wings were ripped off of the lion - symbolic of America (the eagle) being ripped away from Britian (the lion).  The other beasts of Daniel were a lepard (Germany) and a bear (Russia) and some other beast that will come to power near the end of time.

In Revelation, Daniel's beasts have merged into one:  "And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority." (Revelation 13:1-2)

Notice in Rev 13:2 (above), it states that the beast has a mouth of a lion - meaning when this international force is formed, the international language would be the language of the lion (Britian) - English.

This international arrangement will be in agreement during the last days.

Daniel ch 7 is a great read, and it gives it's own interpretation.  The book of Revelation can be thought of as a detailed version of Daniel ch 7.

Here is Daniel chapter 7 from the NIV:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=dan%207;&version=31;

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[Storebought]

I don't think of these things as necessarily "End of Times", but they are unabashedly "pagan" images all the same.

In fact, the more I think about it, the "woman-riding-the-bull" (not "harlot-riding-the-beast") symbolism was chosen precisely to eliminate whatever residual Christian spiritualism that had been retained from the EU's start as a Catholic project.

[12th Doctor]

I don't think of these things as necessarily "End of Times", but they are unabashedly "pagan" images all the same.

In fact, the more I think about it, the "woman-riding-the-bull" (not "harlot-riding-the-beast") symbolism was chosen precisely to eliminate whatever residual Christian spiritualism that had been retained from the EU's start as a Catholic project.

Excuse me.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't think of these things as necessarily "End of Times", but they are unabashedly "pagan" images all the same.

In fact, the more I think about it, the "woman-riding-the-bull" (not "harlot-riding-the-beast") symbolism was chosen precisely to eliminate whatever residual Christian spiritualism that had been retained from the EU's start as a Catholic project.

Excuse me.

Schumann and Monnet were both devout Catholics; think that's what he's getting at.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I don't think of these things as necessarily "End of Times", but they are unabashedly "pagan" images all the same.

In fact, the more I think about it, the "woman-riding-the-bull" (not "harlot-riding-the-beast") symbolism was chosen precisely to eliminate whatever residual Christian spiritualism that had been retained from the EU's start as a Catholic project.

Excuse me.

The 12 stars in the EU flag have a 'biblical' origin (well, along with other things as well; though this is disputed). See here (and the bit under "biblical intrepretation as well").

Of course that's just the symbolism (which at this point did have some revelance in reality; Christian Democracy was dominant in Europe at that time).

Seriously people, the EU is infrutating sometimes, but it is hardly the politburo-bureaucratic fantasy that some on the right seem determine to paint it as.

[Storebought]

I don't think of these things as necessarily "End of Times", but they are unabashedly "pagan" images all the same.

In fact, the more I think about it, the "woman-riding-the-bull" (not "harlot-riding-the-beast") symbolism was chosen precisely to eliminate whatever residual Christian spiritualism that had been retained from the EU's start as a Catholic project.

Excuse me.

Schumann and Monnet were both devout Catholics; think that's what he's getting at.

As were De Gaulle and Adenauer.

From what I read of it, the Catholic social influence behind the start of the EU seems irrefutable.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The 12 stars in the EU flag have a 'biblical' origin (well, along with other things as well; though this is disputed). See here (and the bit under "biblical intrepretation as well").

the woman in Rev 12 with a crown of 12 stars is Israel, not Mary.

from verse 12:6 forward, it is obviously not talking about Mary:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev%2012&version=31

and the woman crying in pain in child birth in verse 12:2 does not match the Catholic depiction of Jesus' birth.

[12th Doctor]

I don't think of these things as necessarily "End of Times", but they are unabashedly "pagan" images all the same.

In fact, the more I think about it, the "woman-riding-the-bull" (not "harlot-riding-the-beast") symbolism was chosen precisely to eliminate whatever residual Christian spiritualism that had been retained from the EU's start as a Catholic project.

Excuse me.

Schumann and Monnet were both devout Catholics; think that's what he's getting at.

As were De Gaulle and Adenauer.

From what I read of it, the Catholic social influence behind the start of the EU seems irrefutable.

The EU is a Catholic plot?  Okay.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I don't think of these things as necessarily "End of Times", but they are unabashedly "pagan" images all the same.

In fact, the more I think about it, the "woman-riding-the-bull" (not "harlot-riding-the-beast") symbolism was chosen precisely to eliminate whatever residual Christian spiritualism that had been retained from the EU's start as a Catholic project.

Excuse me.

Schumann and Monnet were both devout Catholics; think that's what he's getting at.

As were De Gaulle and Adenauer.

From what I read of it, the Catholic social influence behind the start of the EU seems irrefutable.

The EU is a Catholic plot?  Okay.

No-one said that. Most of the original architects of the EU were Catholic. However didn't that particularly last very long...

[12th Doctor]

I don't think of these things as necessarily "End of Times", but they are unabashedly "pagan" images all the same.

In fact, the more I think about it, the "woman-riding-the-bull" (not "harlot-riding-the-beast") symbolism was chosen precisely to eliminate whatever residual Christian spiritualism that had been retained from the EU's start as a Catholic project.

Excuse me.

Schumann and Monnet were both devout Catholics; think that's what he's getting at.

As were De Gaulle and Adenauer.

From what I read of it, the Catholic social influence behind the start of the EU seems irrefutable.

The EU is a Catholic plot?  Okay.

No-one said that. Most of the original architects of the EU were Catholic. However didn't that particularly last very long...

Storebought said it was a "Catholic Project".  If he is going to claim that, then my assumption is that his claim is based on more than the fact that a few people who happened to be Catholic were highly influential in getting it started.

[7,052,770]

Good thing all that Revelation stuff is fantasy.

[Storebought]

I don't think of these things as necessarily "End of Times", but they are unabashedly "pagan" images all the same.

In fact, the more I think about it, the "woman-riding-the-bull" (not "harlot-riding-the-beast") symbolism was chosen precisely to eliminate whatever residual Christian spiritualism that had been retained from the EU's start as a Catholic project.

Excuse me.

Schumann and Monnet were both devout Catholics; think that's what he's getting at.

As were De Gaulle and Adenauer.

From what I read of it, the Catholic social influence behind the start of the EU seems irrefutable.

The EU is a Catholic plot?  Okay.

No-one said that. Most of the original architects of the EU were Catholic. However didn't that particularly last very long...

Storebought said it was a "Catholic Project".  If he is going to claim that, then my assumption is that his claim is based on more than the fact that a few people who happened to be Catholic were highly influential in getting it started.

OK, then. I was sloppy with my words. I should have said: A pan-European political project (even though it wasn't, as it excluded the UK) with a profound basis in Catholic teaching.

Just read the language of the ever-popular Schuman declaration:

It proposes that Franco-German production of coal and steel as a whole be placed under a common High Authority, within the framework of an organization open to the participation of the other countries of Europe.  The pooling of coal and steel production should immediately provide for the setting up of common foundations for economic development as a first step in the federation of Europe, and will change the destinies of those regions which have long been devoted to the manufacture of munitions of war, of which they have been the most constant victims.

The solidarity in production thus established will make it plain that any war between France and Germany becomes not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible. The setting up of this powerful productive unit, open to all countries willing to take part and bound ultimately to provide all the member countries with the basic elements of industrial production on the same terms, will lay a true foundation for their economic unification.

This production will be offered to the world as a whole without distinction or exception, with the aim of contributing to raising living standards and to promoting peaceful achievements. With increased resources Europe will be able to pursue the achievement of one of its essential tasks, namely, the development of the African continent. In this way, there will be realised simply and speedily that fusion of interest which is indispensable to the establishment of a common economic system; it may be the leaven from which may grow a wider and deeper community between countries long opposed to one another by sanguinary divisions.

Economic corporatism leading to an eventual political union that preserves peace and respects the dignity of mankind, without invoking a single word or precept of Socialism (remember, this is 1950)? That sounds like Christian Democracy to me.

I don't think it's possible to separate church doctrine from either the founders or from the (initial) results: The Robert Schuman archives are maintained by the Catholic Academy of Trier.

[Gustaf]

I think that at this point we all know what the woman on the beast REALLY represents.

ITS TEH NIGG...eh, I mean African-Americans DESTRAYING ARERMICA!!#!=!

[Smid]

I think that at this point we all know what the woman on the beast REALLY represents.

ITS TEH NIGG...eh, I mean African-Americans DESTRAYING ARERMICA!!#!=!

Gustaf is a Prophetman Sock!

[DownWithTheLeft]

European Parliament

That's exactly what the new Giants Stadium looks like

[pbrower2a]

OK, then. I was sloppy with my words. I should have said: A pan-European political project (even though it wasn't, as it excluded the UK) with a profound basis in Catholic teaching.

Just read the language of the ever-popular Schuman declaration:

It proposes that Franco-German production of coal and steel as a whole be placed under a common High Authority, within the framework of an organization open to the participation of the other countries of Europe.  The pooling of coal and steel production should immediately provide for the setting up of common foundations for economic development as a first step in the federation of Europe, and will change the destinies of those regions which have long been devoted to the manufacture of munitions of war, of which they have been the most constant victims.

The solidarity in production thus established will make it plain that any war between France and Germany becomes not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible. The setting up of this powerful productive unit, open to all countries willing to take part and bound ultimately to provide all the member countries with the basic elements of industrial production on the same terms, will lay a true foundation for their economic unification.

This production will be offered to the world as a whole without distinction or exception, with the aim of contributing to raising living standards and to promoting peaceful achievements. With increased resources Europe will be able to pursue the achievement of one of its essential tasks, namely, the development of the African continent. In this way, there will be realised simply and speedily that fusion of interest which is indispensable to the establishment of a common economic system; it may be the leaven from which may grow a wider and deeper community between countries long opposed to one another by sanguinary divisions.

Economic corporatism leading to an eventual political union that preserves peace and respects the dignity of mankind, without invoking a single word or precept of Socialism (remember, this is 1950)? That sounds like Christian Democracy to me.

I don't think it's possible to separate church doctrine from either the founders or from the (initial) results: The Robert Schuman archives are maintained by the Catholic Academy of Trier.

After the failure of post-World War I democracy and the rise of fascism and Nazism, and with the prospect of Communism on the march, western Europeans needed an economic order that could preserve democracy. Free trade would break the cartels that had underpinned reactionary politics that had brought Europe to the brink of a new Dark Age.  Not conservative as in Churchill, De Gaulle, or Adenauer but reactionary as in Hitler, Mussolini, and Petain. The reactionaries found war one of the few reliable means of ensuring a high demand for steel (not to mention coal, iron ore, and limestone necessary for steel production) by creating armaments.  Those armaments enticed arms races, misunderstandings, and wars.

I wouldn't make much of the similarity between the EU's building and the Tower of Babel in Breughel's painting; the modern building is an unimaginative cylindrical glass skyscraper, and the Tower of Babel is a cone.

[Person Man]

Light that sh**t, smoke that sh**t, pass that sh**t... but hey, Europa is pretty hot.

[Torie]

I am more worried about whether I will be sufficiently entertained tonight to meet my high expectations. 

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Cool, some people in here just discovered that our culture which is in big part based on Greek one, Roman one, and Catholic one has influenced the building of the last project of society we had. Great discovery.

Supersoulty, if that topic is not hugely ironical, here's something to make you still more worrying:

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That's the first post from a thread of a forum which is here:

http://www.prophecytalk.com/index.php?topic=4862.0

For this, I must thank an old sig of Hashemite which gave me the idea to google "sarkozy antichrist". As he said in his sig "People nowadays...". Damn, I didn't need it to worry about how can think people nowadays...

[prophetman]

I think that at this point we all know what the woman on the beast REALLY represents.

ITS TEH NIGG...eh, I mean African-Americans DESTRAYING ARERMICA!!#!=!

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There are two "beasts" of which Daniel and John the Revelator speaks.

One represents that end-time beast kingdom/nation called "MIGHTY BABYLON" which is hosted by "the ten kings".

And the other is that "man of lawlessness" or diverse race of people upon Babylon who exalt themselves above the ten kings in the latter years.

There's no great mystery as to where and who those two beasts represents!!

Clearly Babylon represent America and the European Americans. ie the ten kings!

And the man of lawlessness represents the ten horns or African Americans who've exalted themselves above the European Americans.

Paul said in 11Thes.2 that this is that which must occur before the 2nd Coming of Christ.....ie, the European Americans must fall away, and the African Americans must exalt themselves above them.