Democratic Alliance

[Marokai Backbeat]

First of all, your facts are in dire need of a correction. No one ever called for the DA to disband. Max made an offer to all of those on the left, mostly those in the SDP, to join the JCP if they wanted a party that was actually mostly made up of the left and people who supported progressive ideals. Once again, no one called for you to disband.

Second of all, quite frankly, don't get cocky about your third senate seat. You won it by one vote, from someone who barely even cares about Atlasia and openly pimped out his first preference. Don't forget it.

As for the rest of your post, my gripes with the DA is that it's advertised as Nothing But Pragmatism. Your party has a set of principles, but your member's ideology can differ wildly as well as those your party's members admires (Some of your members have hostility towards the RPP, yourself included, some want to work with them, some adore SPC, a wild libertarian) to the point to where your party platform becomes meaningless and your positions become all about the individual's set of ideals and their sense of "compromise."

In my opinion, the DA is more of a label than anything else. It's something people slap on themselves, from varying ideologies, as "Pragmatists," "Compromisers," or "Negotiators." Is there any sort of rallying policy position that this party holds? A political party is founded on a common set of ideals and a common set of positions that most members of the party work to put forward, not a set of attitudes or behavior. The SDP had economic fairness and social justice as their rallying cry, the RPP has regional rights as their rallying cry (unofficially, economic conservatism). The JCP is at least, socially liberal and leftists tend to congregate there.

What does the DA have? Soft libertarians, centrists, moderates, conservatives, and center leftists, rallying around nothing that I can think of and only associating themselves with one another through their sense of "pragmatism" and let's-all-hold-hands-and-work-togetherness. Which is why I call it a label, and not a party.

[Purple State]

Settle down both of you. While it is indeed true that no calls have been made for the DA to disband, it is important that the ideas of practical compromise and negotiation not be slandered.

The hard right and left of the Atlasian political spectrum have not been conducive to progress and action. True reform and successful legislation can only be crafted by a intermediary, a pragmatic center that allows for all sides to meet at an acceptable and successful middle-ground. Centrism does not imply a "let's-all-hold-hands-and-work-togetherness" as you stated, but rather, it provides an alternative to extremist ideologies with the tendency to crash-and-burn, guiding the nation through stagnant policies and unstable rule.

So rather than continuously sway back and forth between left and right, the people have made it clear that stability and compromise is what they want. And that's exactly what the DA can provide.

[Franzl]

First of all, your facts are in dire need of a correction. No one ever called for the DA to disband. Max made an offer to all of those on the left, mostly those in the SDP, to join the JCP if they wanted a party that was actually mostly made up of the left and people who supported progressive ideals. Once again, no one called for you to disband.

Second of all, quite frankly, don't get cocky about your third senate seat. You won it by one vote, from someone who barely even cares about Atlasia and openly pimped out his first preference. Don't forget it.

As for the rest of your post, my gripes with the DA is that it's advertised as Nothing But Pragmatism. Your party has a set of principles, but your member's ideology can differ wildly as well as those your party's members admires (Some of your members have hostility towards the RPP, yourself included, some want to work with them, some adore SPC, a wild libertarian) to the point to where your party platform becomes meaningless and your positions become all about the individual's set of ideals and their sense of "compromise."

In my opinion, the DA is more of a label than anything else. It's something people slap on themselves, from varying ideologies, as "Pragmatists," "Compromisers," or "Negotiators." Is there any sort of rallying policy position that this party holds? A political party is founded on a common set of ideals and a common set of positions that most members of the party work to put forward, not a set of attitudes or behavior. The SDP had economic fairness and social justice as their rallying cry, the RPP has regional rights as their rallying cry (unofficially, economic conservatism). The JCP is at least, socially liberal and leftists tend to congregate there.

What does the DA have? Soft libertarians, centrists, moderates, conservatives, and center leftists, rallying around nothing that I can think of and only associating themselves with one another through their sense of "pragmatism" and let's-all-hold-hands-and-work-togetherness. Which is why I call it a label, and not a party.

In that case, you haven't understood what the DA stands for, and I suggest that you read our platform and other statements.

I think you'll find that every member of the DA is more or less socially liberal....and although our economic views differ somewhat, we are all committed to some form of moderate economics....with a couple of exceptions, we all believe in free trade, for example....I think that almost all of us support some sort of universal healthcare system...we mostly support progressive taxation....etc.

Your attempts to label the Democratic Alliance as nothing more than a big tent for people of random ideologies simply isn't true, and it seems to come from someone that is upset about his former party's losses. Although I understand that disappointment, I would hope that we could refrain from falsely identifying each other.

[Hash]

Second of all, quite frankly, don't get cocky about your third senate seat. You won it by one vote, from someone who barely even cares about Atlasia and openly pimped out his first preference. Don't forget it.

Oh cool, thanks for shoving emotions into me! The fact is, the DA performed very well in this election, winning more than 40% of FPVs. That's an undeniable fact. If anything, you're more the one that's severely disappointed since you lost.

As for the rest of your post, my gripes with the DA is that it's advertised as Nothing But Pragmatism. Your party has a set of principles, but your member's ideology can differ wildly as well as those your party's members admires (Some of your members have hostility towards the RPP, yourself included, some want to work with them, some adore SPC, a wild libertarian) to the point to where your party platform becomes meaningless and your positions become all about the individual's set of ideals and their sense of "compromise."

I have enough of repeating the same things over and over again, since you'll probably respond with the same thing. As Franzl said, we have a platform that 90% of the party agreed upon. A very clear platform, with clear stances. If you read it, you'll see that it isn't willy wooly crappy moderate hero junk. I know you say that this doesn't matter, but the fact of the matter is that a large majority of our party is socially liberal, economically moderate, and largely united in favour of things such as universal health care and so on. We have ideologies.

I doubt anybody in the DA "adores" SPC as you seem to think. Some agree that while he had policies nobody in the DA agrees with, he was able to compromise on some stuff and offered real debate to a Senate that often tends to go on hiatus.

In my opinion, the DA is more of a label than anything else. It's something people slap on themselves, from varying ideologies, as "Pragmatists," "Compromisers," or "Negotiators." Is there any sort of rallying policy position that this party holds? A political party is founded on a common set of ideals and a common set of positions that most members of the party work to put forward, not a set of attitudes or behavior. The SDP had economic fairness and social justice as their rallying cry, the RPP has regional rights as their rallying cry (unofficially, economic conservatism). The JCP is at least, socially liberal and leftists tend to congregate there.

What does the DA have? Soft libertarians, centrists, moderates, conservatives, and center leftists, rallying around nothing that I can think of and only associating themselves with one another through their sense of "pragmatism" and let's-all-hold-hands-and-work-togetherness. Which is why I call it a label, and not a party.

We have a common set of ideals. As I said above and as Franzl said, we're largely socially liberal, economically moderate, and so forth. But we also think, as we've said a quadrillion times, that sometimes compromising and offering an alternative to a left and right closed down to compromise is necessary. I won't go into repeating what Franzl and PS said, since I wholeheartedly agree with their statements.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Second of all, quite frankly, don't get cocky about your third senate seat. You won it by one vote, from someone who barely even cares about Atlasia and openly pimped out his first preference. Don't forget it.

Oh cool, thanks for shoving emotions into me! The fact is, the DA performed very well in this election, winning more than 40% of FPVs. That's an undeniable fact. If anything, you're more the one that's severely disappointed since you lost.

Lief lost, not I. And although the loss is of course disappointing like any loss is, I'm not here to take it out on you. I would take it out on Keystone Phil, but that gets me in trouble with the moderators

My point is that I'm hearing a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about how all three DA'ers were swept to office because of some hearty rejection of the left and right, which isn't the case. Your third senate seat was won by a fraction of the vote decided by someone who considers Atlasia a giant joke and is a polar opposite, ideologically, of Purple State in many ways.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I have enough of repeating the same things over and over again, since you'll probably respond with the same thing. As Franzl said, we have a platform that 90% of the party agreed upon. A very clear platform, with clear stances. If you read it, you'll see that it isn't willy wooly crappy moderate hero junk. I know you say that this doesn't matter, but the fact of the matter is that a large majority of our party is socially liberal, economically moderate, and largely united in favour of things such as universal health care and so on. We have ideologies.

I doubt anybody in the DA "adores" SPC as you seem to think. Some agree that while he had policies nobody in the DA agrees with, he was able to compromise on some stuff and offered real debate to a Senate that often tends to go on hiatus.[/quote]

Now see, this is where I'm having trouble understanding because, I've heard that the Democratic Alliance is considering a coalition with the RPP for the Presidency. The Party that supported economic anarchy in our Southern region by unconstitutionally supporting efforts to create a separate currency, born out of secession, and quite, quite, conservative economically, does not seem to be the DA's love match.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me this party stands for something (after many of you lectured me on the topic) and doesn't fit the mood of the day when you want to run off to the other side of the playground and side with the other boys because you want to beat up kids you don't like.

[Hash]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I have enough of repeating the same things over and over again, since you'll probably respond with the same thing. As Franzl said, we have a platform that 90% of the party agreed upon. A very clear platform, with clear stances. If you read it, you'll see that it isn't willy wooly crappy moderate hero junk. I know you say that this doesn't matter, but the fact of the matter is that a large majority of our party is socially liberal, economically moderate, and largely united in favour of things such as universal health care and so on. We have ideologies.

I doubt anybody in the DA "adores" SPC as you seem to think. Some agree that while he had policies nobody in the DA agrees with, he was able to compromise on some stuff and offered real debate to a Senate that often tends to go on hiatus.

Now see, this is where I'm having trouble understanding because, I've heard that the Democratic Alliance is considering a coalition with the RPP for the Presidency. The Party that supported economic anarchy in our Southern region by unconstitutionally supporting efforts to create a separate currency, born out of secession, and quite, quite, conservative economically, does not seem to be the DA's love match.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me this party stands for something (after many of you lectured me on the topic) and doesn't fit the mood of the day when you want to run off to the other side of the playground and side with the other boys because you want to beat up kids you don't like.
[/quote]

I don't know where you're getting your information that the DA is all of a sudden considering a coalition with the RPP. As President of the DA, I can confirm that the DA is not in talks with the RPP considering an alliance for any position; unless members are acting behind my back, which I strongly disapprove of. I have no problems working the RPP as long as they adhere to principles, values, and are open to compromise. But I can confirm 100% that there are no talks with the RPP for an alliance to any office whatsoever in the near future.

I personally am of your personal opinion considering the monetary issue, and I am sure that the DA is as well.

[Franzl]

I find it amusing that the distinguished Attorney General appears to know more about our party than our own members.

[Associate Justice PiT]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I have enough of repeating the same things over and over again, since you'll probably respond with the same thing. As Franzl said, we have a platform that 90% of the party agreed upon. A very clear platform, with clear stances. If you read it, you'll see that it isn't willy wooly crappy moderate hero junk. I know you say that this doesn't matter, but the fact of the matter is that a large majority of our party is socially liberal, economically moderate, and largely united in favour of things such as universal health care and so on. We have ideologies.

I doubt anybody in the DA "adores" SPC as you seem to think. Some agree that while he had policies nobody in the DA agrees with, he was able to compromise on some stuff and offered real debate to a Senate that often tends to go on hiatus.

Now see, this is where I'm having trouble understanding because, I've heard that the Democratic Alliance is considering a coalition with the RPP for the Presidency. The Party that supported economic anarchy in our Southern region by unconstitutionally supporting efforts to create a separate currency, born out of secession, and quite, quite, conservative economically, does not seem to be the DA's love match.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me this party stands for something (after many of you lectured me on the topic) and doesn't fit the mood of the day when you want to run off to the other side of the playground and side with the other boys because you want to beat up kids you don't like.

I don't know where you're getting your information that the DA is all of a sudden considering a coalition with the RPP. As President of the DA, I can confirm that the DA is not in talks with the RPP considering an alliance for any position; unless members are acting behind my back, which I strongly disapprove of. I have no problems working the RPP as long as they adhere to principles, values, and are open to compromise. But I can confirm 100% that there are no talks with the RPP for an alliance to any office whatsoever in the near future.

I personally am of your personal opinion considering the monetary issue, and I am sure that the DA is as well.
[/quote]

     I can confirm that no talks are underway at the moment. However, we of the RPP remain committed to advancing our ideology, & we would be more than willing to ally ourselves with the DA in order to advance certain issues that both parties' members share a common vision on.

[Franzl]

I find it amusing that the distinguished Attorney General appears to know more about our party than our own members.

You might want to let your Vice-Chair know, then. Is posting IM logs bad form?

Don't quite understand what you mean to imply. Please explain.

[Devilman88]

I find it amusing that the distinguished Attorney General appears to know more about our party than our own members.

You might want to let your Vice-Chair know, then. Is posting IM logs bad form?

Don't quite understand what you mean to imply. Please explain.

Ditto.

[Hash]

I was not aware of these statements, and I condemn them. I will talk to HappyWarrior privately concerning this matter, but for this moment, there is no official discussion between our respective party leaderships concerning any alliance with the RPP in the near future.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I was not aware of these statements, and I condemn them. I will talk to HappyWarrior privately concerning this matter, but for this moment, there is no official discussion between our respective party leaderships concerning any alliance with the RPP in the near future.

I appreciate the mix-up being clarified then.

[Franzl]

Certainly not good wording, and I disagree with the premise of "wanting power" so far as to sacrifice defending our ideology in order to obtain it.

However, I'm certainly open to supporting an RPP candidate if the circumstances allow that....but everything greatly depends on the candidates that run for each party.

I certainly disagree that we cannot get a member of our party elected on their own....and even if it doesn't look like we could win, I would support running DA candidates anyway just to represent our party.

I am not aware of any formal talks with the RPP, as many others have stated, and I am unaware of a DA member being offered a spot on any ticket led by the RPP. Should that indeed be true, although I have my doubts, I would have to consider that ticket on its merits.

[Smid]

What Chairman Hashemite and Senators Franzl and PurpleState say is true: the DA is a classical liberal party (effectively a non-extreme version of the libertarians, who focus on personal freedoms, but recognise the need for the government to intervene at various times - hence the DA's positions on progressive taxation and universal health care). They are not merely power-hungry pragmatists, they're a party in the centre that are able to negotiate with both sides of politics and are open to compromise when they consider it necessary. The reason for their ability to forge compromise solutions is because they are neither drastically different from the left nor the right.

I agree with a fair swag of the DA policy platform, and in the absence of the RPP would be comfortable being a member (although not quite as comfortable as I am in the RPP). I'm a bit more socially conservative than the DA, which is why I don't find them an ideal fit for me, but I do agree with many members of the DA - most closely with Senators Franzl and Afleitch and also Governor AndrewCT. In the last STV election this weekend past, the DA received my 3rd and 5th preferences, meaning that a DA member received a preference from me higher than one of the RPP candidates - and this is not a first for me, Lief received my second preference in the previous STV election. In the last presidential election, I was comfortable voting for an all-DA presidential ticket, despite the RPP having an endorsed ticket.

To alledge that there is an unholy alliance, a coalition of the unwilling, a conspiracy to corner the political market is quite simply wrong. There will always be members of the DA who will find support from among the ranks of the RPP, just as there will always be members of the RPP who will find support from among DA members. Just yesterday, Senator Franzl and Governor AndrewCT mentioned their current support for the re-election of maverick Midwestern RPP Senator MasterJedi. This isn't collusion, this is cross-party support for mutually acceptable candidates. I would not have been elected without the support of the DA and they got nothing out of my election except for my humble thanks to the party, no deals, no cross-party endorsement, no traded-off positions.

The DA have an ideology, but they are able to find the room to compromise with the left or the right - but equally to achieve that, the left and the right need to compromise before an agreement can be reached. If the left is so opposed to the DA's willingness to compromise that the left-wing parties don't budge, well the DA won't cross the floor and compromise everything they stand for in exchange for nothing. It takes compromise by both parties in order for an agreement to be reached. All parties jointly share any criticism of compromise negotiations, not the DA alone.

[Purple State]

As DA Secretary I would like to fully clarify what has been said recently in this thread by Marokai.

The DA is, and I am sure all parties are as well, currently in the process of developing a coherent strategy regarding the upcoming elections in June. My responsibilities, which include heading those discussions, are over a large number of options still on the table, and no single idea has been confirmed or fully developed. Any plans are still in very early stages and far from being finalized.

Let me be clear, any matters privately pushed by a current member of the DA should only be viewed as a personal agenda, wholly separate from the DA banner. No plans have been finalized and all official announcements of the party will come from either myself or Hashemite.

[HappyWarrior]

And just to clarify, the vast majority of the statements I made in that section were my own views and nothing resembling a party line.  I once again appologize.  That is all.

[Purple State]

I appreciate if we could leave my statement as the final word on this matter. Deliberations are on-going and no decisions are close to finalization. Thank you.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I appreciate if we could leave my statement as the final word on this matter. Deliberations are on-going and no decisions are close to finalization. Thank you.

I'll delete the logs I posted, however, I don't generally like leaving a conversation with comments such as "Marokai disgusts me" at the end of it, I'm sure you can understand.

[Purple State]

I appreciate if we could leave my statement as the final word on this matter. Deliberations are on-going and no decisions are close to finalization. Thank you.

I'll delete the logs I posted, however, I don't generally like leaving a conversation with comments such as "Marokai disgusts me" at the end of it, I'm sure you can understand.

I would ask that all claims and related posts by yourself and HW be deleted so as to allow official DA statements to speak for themselves.

[HappyWarrior]

I have by the way deleted my response statement and Marokai if you would do the same it would be appreciated.

[Purple State]

I would also appreciate the deletion of that last post quoting two posts that would be better off deleted.

EDIT: Thank you everyone for your cooperation.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I would just like to apologize to HappyWarrior for posting the aforementioned logs. Though it wasn't what he asked me to keep secret it really is terrible form to post IM logs in a public venue like this. He thought highly of me and I don't want to think that I hurt him or his career here in any way. I'm sorry.

[MaxQue]

I would just like to apologize to HappyWarrior for posting the aforementioned logs. Though it wasn't what he asked me to keep secret it really is terrible form to post IM logs in a public venue like this. He thought highly of me and I don't want to think that I hurt him or his career here in any way. I'm sorry.

I would like to note than I am able to keep things confidential and so, there is no ethics problems in the former SDP leadership. Even under torture, I will not reveal the secrets I know until they are announced.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I would just like to apologize to HappyWarrior for posting the aforementioned logs. Though it wasn't what he asked me to keep secret it really is terrible form to post IM logs in a public venue like this. He thought highly of me and I don't want to think that I hurt him or his career here in any way. I'm sorry.

I would like to note than I am able to keep things confidential and so, there is no ethics problems in the former SDP leadership. Even under torture, I will not reveal the secrets I know until they are announced.

Always so sweet, aren't you, Max?

[Franzl]

I would just like to apologize to HappyWarrior for posting the aforementioned logs. Though it wasn't what he asked me to keep secret it really is terrible form to post IM logs in a public venue like this. He thought highly of me and I don't want to think that I hurt him or his career here in any way. I'm sorry.

You made that post after I asked about it.....so I'm partially to blame