Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 30, 2014, 07:16:27 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Atlas Fantasy Elections
| |-+  Atlas Fantasy Government
| | |-+  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Gustaf, MasterJedi)
| | | |-+  Suggestions for Government Types (Closed)
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Suggestions for Government Types (Closed)  (Read 5351 times)
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6780
United States


View Profile
« on: March 23, 2009, 09:46:39 am »
Ignore

This thread is for proposals of different forms of governing. In order for your proposal to appear in the vote later on (Step 2 in the procedure outlined in the Questions/Suggestions thread) you must provide 3 things:

1) A name

2) A short blurb explaining what it is

3) Must be seconded by another delegate

Non-delegates may propose their ideas, but it must be sponsored by a delegate and seconded by another delegate.



Current ideas proposed: (* indicates has been seconded)

  • Parliamentary Universalism* = all participants shall be the members of a Lower House of the Legislature, and with an elected Upper House.
  • Presidential Parliamentarian* = an unicameral legislature, like the one we have currently, expanded slightly, that elects a Prime Minister (Head of Government) who selects his cabinet. This could also include a President (Head of State) that is elected through a nationwide popular vote
  • Presidential Universalism* = a system, similar to our current system of a President & Vice President, and Senate (at least partially elected by the regions), but everyone else would then be part of the lower house. Governors would be members of the lower house but ineligible for the upper house. Cabinet members would come from the lower house. An election for Speaker of the House would be held at the same time as the other federal elections
  • Unitarian Empire* = a greatly centralized national government, headed by an infrequently elected (once yearly?) emperor, with greater involvement in regional affairs. Basic regional structures (governors, legislatures, etc.) would remain, but a strong figurehead would lead most aspects of the federal level. Possible involvement of regions in federal decisions, such as regional votes on Emperor's agenda, requiring general consensus by a majority of regions
  • Bicameral Nonparliamentarian = a multi region system, with delegates to a House determined by population of region, with a medium member limit. The second house will be a Senate, with one delegate from each region. Bills will be passed through both houses with a conference to compromise differences. Possibly no governors and any duties, if there were any, of the governor will go either to a Senator or a Representative. Includes a popularly elected President



Even if you see yours here, feel free to offer a slight variation on the blurb, etc. if you feel it fundamentally changes the proposal. Otherwise, debate will be better left to forming the new government later on.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 04:04:07 pm by Mideast Assembly Speaker Purple State »Logged

Marokai/Purple Main Campaign Thread

Thank you to all our supporters!

Smid
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6030
Australia


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 09:48:37 am »
Ignore

I sponsor a parliamentary model by which all participants shall be the members of a Lower House of the Legislature, and with an elected Upper House.
Logged
Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22246
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 09:49:18 am »
Ignore

I sponsor a parliamentary model by which all participants shall be the members of a Lower House of the Legislature, and with an elected Upper House.

I second this.
Logged
Smid
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6030
Australia


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 09:52:39 am »
Ignore

I sponsor a parliamentary model by which all participants shall be the members of a Lower House of the Legislature, and with an elected Upper House.

I second this.

Thank you, sir. We work well together.
Logged
ilikeverin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15500
Timor-Leste


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 12:03:01 pm »
Ignore

Abolition: the abolition of the national government in favor of the creation of multiple nations.

Unitarianism: the abolition of the regional governments, with all powers thereof shifted to the national government.

I'd also propose breaking up Smid's proposal into:

Universalism: the creation of a bicameral system in which all participants are a member of the lower house and the upper house is elected.

Parliamentarianism: a parliamentary-style system of governance.

Some people may wish to be universalists and not parliamentarians, whereas others may feel the opposite way.
Logged

Chief Judicial Officer of the Most Serene Republic of the Midwest, registered in the State of Joy, in Atlasia
Recognized National Treasure of Atlasia
afleitch
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21992


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -8.17

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 01:19:19 pm »
Ignore

I sponsor a parliamentary model by which all participants shall be the members of a Lower House of the Legislature, and with an elected Upper House.

I second this.

Thank you, sir. We work well together.

Thirded. Maximum participation, a good grounding and use of all talents Smiley
Logged
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6780
United States


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 01:33:55 pm »
Ignore

Abolition: the abolition of the national government in favor of the creation of multiple nations.

Unitarianism: the abolition of the regional governments, with all powers thereof shifted to the national government.

I'd also propose breaking up Smid's proposal into:

Universalism: the creation of a bicameral system in which all participants are a member of the lower house and the upper house is elected.

Parliamentarianism: a parliamentary-style system of governance.

Some people may wish to be universalists and not parliamentarians, whereas others may feel the opposite way.

Could you expand on how delineating the two differently would change the underlying meaning? Or could the broader term come to include either/or during later discussion?
Logged

Marokai/Purple Main Campaign Thread

Thank you to all our supporters!

DownWithTheLeft
downwithdaleft
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18877
Italy


Political Matrix
E: 9.16, S: -3.13

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 01:49:39 pm »
Ignore

Federal:
Parlimentary with 10 member Upper House
  -3 at-large in February and August
  -3 regional seats in April and October
  -4 at-large seats in June and Decemeber

Parliment elects PM with simple majority vote

Regional:
3 regions run similary to how regions are now
Logged

Gov. Christopher J. Christie
afleitch
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21992


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -8.17

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2009, 02:22:17 pm »
Ignore

Federal:
Parlimentary with 10 member Upper House
  -3 at-large in February and August
  -3 regional seats in April and October
  -4 at-large seats in June and Decemeber

Parliment elects PM with simple majority vote

Regional:
3 regions run similary to how regions are now

What would compose the lower house in plan 1 out of interest? Something similar to Smid's suggestion?
Logged
Lief
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 33782


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2009, 02:29:49 pm »
Ignore

I like the idea of parliamentarianism, but I'm not really sold on the idea of universalism. In a system where everyone was in the lower house, what would the point of an upper house be? We'd also be radically shifting the the game from an election sim to a government sim.
Logged


At the very least, this turn of events seems to validate my prediction that Americans are ready and willing to fully embrace fascism.
I dreamed about Lief spanking Rand Paul.
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6780
United States


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2009, 02:30:49 pm »
Ignore

So write up a small blurb for a parliamentarian, non-universalism government and I will stick it up there.

Also a note for everyone: Try to stay away from specifics (like how many seats, etc.). Just focus on the basic idea of the government, word it like my blurbs for the ones already submitted. If I accidentally mischaracterized your proposal please correct me. I'm trying to word them as close as I can to what it appears you mean. The nitty-gritty will be resolved in Convention debate.

And don't forget to second the motions you like!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 02:35:14 pm by Mideast Assembly Speaker Purple State »Logged

Marokai/Purple Main Campaign Thread

Thank you to all our supporters!

Lief
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 33782


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2009, 03:09:12 pm »
Ignore

A unicameral legislature, like the one we have currently, perhaps expanded slightly to 15 or 20 seats, that elects a Prime Minister (Head of Government) who selects his cabinet. This could also include a President (Head of State) that is elected through a nationwide popular vote.
Logged


At the very least, this turn of events seems to validate my prediction that Americans are ready and willing to fully embrace fascism.
I dreamed about Lief spanking Rand Paul.
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31507
South Africa


Political Matrix
E: -1.29, S: -7.30

P P P

View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2009, 03:10:35 pm »
Ignore

I only like Smid's idea out of all those.
Logged

DownWithTheLeft
downwithdaleft
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18877
Italy


Political Matrix
E: 9.16, S: -3.13

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2009, 03:35:33 pm »
Ignore

Federal:
Parlimentary with 10 member Upper House
  -3 at-large in February and August
  -3 regional seats in April and October
  -4 at-large seats in June and Decemeber

Parliment elects PM with simple majority vote

Regional:
3 regions run similary to how regions are now

What would compose the lower house in plan 1 out of interest? Something similar to Smid's suggestion?
Similar to Smid but I want a set rule on what qualifies someone for lower house.  I think voting in the last election might be a good one, and at least 2 posts in the lower house since the last election.
Logged

Gov. Christopher J. Christie
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6780
United States


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2009, 03:39:00 pm »
Ignore

Federal:
Parlimentary with 10 member Upper House
  -3 at-large in February and August
  -3 regional seats in April and October
  -4 at-large seats in June and Decemeber

Parliment elects PM with simple majority vote

Regional:
3 regions run similary to how regions are now

What would compose the lower house in plan 1 out of interest? Something similar to Smid's suggestion?
Similar to Smid but I want a set rule on what qualifies someone for lower house.  I think voting in the last election might be a good one, and at least 2 posts in the lower house since the last election.

That will be something to work out once we have a form to work with. It would fall under Smid's current proposal for this thread.

I will keep this open for another day probably. Anyone have something that hasn't been thought of yet? Electoral authoritarian regime? Smiley
Logged

Marokai/Purple Main Campaign Thread

Thank you to all our supporters!

ilikeverin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15500
Timor-Leste


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2009, 08:11:11 pm »
Ignore

Abolition: the abolition of the national government in favor of the creation of multiple nations.

Unitarianism: the abolition of the regional governments, with all powers thereof shifted to the national government.

I'd also propose breaking up Smid's proposal into:

Universalism: the creation of a bicameral system in which all participants are a member of the lower house and the upper house is elected.

Parliamentarianism: a parliamentary-style system of governance.

Some people may wish to be universalists and not parliamentarians, whereas others may feel the opposite way.

Could you expand on how delineating the two differently would change the underlying meaning? Or could the broader term come to include either/or during later discussion?

The individual components wouldn't be any different, essentially, but it's breaking it apart that's the important part.  IMO, having a parliamentary system and having a universal system aren't at all mutually implicational; one could easily come up with a universalist system that's basically like what currently exists with everyone else serving in the lower house and a parliamentary system that's unicameral with elected members but no universalism.
Logged

Chief Judicial Officer of the Most Serene Republic of the Midwest, registered in the State of Joy, in Atlasia
Recognized National Treasure of Atlasia
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6780
United States


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2009, 08:31:02 pm »
Ignore

Abolition: the abolition of the national government in favor of the creation of multiple nations.

Unitarianism: the abolition of the regional governments, with all powers thereof shifted to the national government.

I'd also propose breaking up Smid's proposal into:

Universalism: the creation of a bicameral system in which all participants are a member of the lower house and the upper house is elected.

Parliamentarianism: a parliamentary-style system of governance.

Some people may wish to be universalists and not parliamentarians, whereas others may feel the opposite way.

Could you expand on how delineating the two differently would change the underlying meaning? Or could the broader term come to include either/or during later discussion?

The individual components wouldn't be any different, essentially, but it's breaking it apart that's the important part.  IMO, having a parliamentary system and having a universal system aren't at all mutually implicational; one could easily come up with a universalist system that's basically like what currently exists with everyone else serving in the lower house and a parliamentary system that's unicameral with elected members but no universalism.

So would both proposals that I have listed properly characterize what you mean here? If so then I believe we have a second for your proposal in Lief's proposal and I can place an asterisk next to it.
Logged

Marokai/Purple Main Campaign Thread

Thank you to all our supporters!

Warner for Senate '14
benconstine
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30648
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2009, 09:20:11 pm »
Ignore

Federal:

-Parliamentary System with a 6 member Upper House, comprised of the Governor of each of the three regions, and one other member per-region.
-The Lower House would comprise all other members of Atlasia not serving in the Upper House, who have voted in the previous election.  A member can be expelled for inactivity (i.e. only voting and nothing else) by a 3/5 majority of the Lower House.
-The Lower House will elect a Prime Minister from either its ranks or the ranks of the Upper House.  The nominee must then receive a majority vote of all Atlasian citizens.

Regional:

-3 Regional Governments, each with their own Constitution, and their own functions.
-Each Region will elect two members of the Upper House: their Governor, and one other person.  These elections (for Governor and At-Large Member) will be held in January, May, and September.
-The Region can recall either their Governor or At-Large Member by a 3/5 vote in the Region.
Logged

Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
Brandon H
brandonh
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4418
United States


Political Matrix
E: 3.48, S: 1.74

View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2009, 11:24:53 pm »
Ignore

I haven't seen this proposed yet.

A system, similar to our current system of a President & Vice President, and Senate (at least partially elected by the regions), but everyone else would then be part of the lower house. Governors would be members of the lower house but ineligible for the upper house. Cabinet members would come from the lower house. An election for Speaker of the House would be held at the same time as the other federal elections. I would also consider having regional Senator elections administered by the regions.

Might be a little too American based for some of you though. Tongue
Logged

A Republican - at least for a little while
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31507
South Africa


Political Matrix
E: -1.29, S: -7.30

P P P

View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2009, 07:13:43 am »
Ignore

Federal:

-Parliamentary System with a 6 member Upper House, comprised of the Governor of each of the three regions, and one other member per-region.
-The Lower House would comprise all other members of Atlasia not serving in the Upper House, who have voted in the previous election.  A member can be expelled for inactivity (i.e. only voting and nothing else) by a 3/5 majority of the Lower House.
-The Lower House will elect a Prime Minister from either its ranks or the ranks of the Upper House.  The nominee must then receive a majority vote of all Atlasian citizens.

Regional:

-3 Regional Governments, each with their own Constitution, and their own functions.
-Each Region will elect two members of the Upper House: their Governor, and one other person.  These elections (for Governor and At-Large Member) will be held in January, May, and September.
-The Region can recall either their Governor or At-Large Member by a 3/5 vote in the Region.


Stop thinking you're a delegate. Since you're not.
Logged

Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6780
United States


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2009, 08:12:15 am »
Ignore

Federal:

-Parliamentary System with a 6 member Upper House, comprised of the Governor of each of the three regions, and one other member per-region.
-The Lower House would comprise all other members of Atlasia not serving in the Upper House, who have voted in the previous election.  A member can be expelled for inactivity (i.e. only voting and nothing else) by a 3/5 majority of the Lower House.
-The Lower House will elect a Prime Minister from either its ranks or the ranks of the Upper House.  The nominee must then receive a majority vote of all Atlasian citizens.

Regional:

-3 Regional Governments, each with their own Constitution, and their own functions.
-Each Region will elect two members of the Upper House: their Governor, and one other person.  These elections (for Governor and At-Large Member) will be held in January, May, and September.
-The Region can recall either their Governor or At-Large Member by a 3/5 vote in the Region.


Stop thinking you're a delegate. Since you're not.

Nor is that any different than previous proposals.

I don't need specifics. Give me general ideas like the blurbs I've already posted. Does anyone feel like seconding other proposals? Or are everything but parliamentarian universalism only supported by one person.
Logged

Marokai/Purple Main Campaign Thread

Thank you to all our supporters!

ilikeverin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15500
Timor-Leste


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2009, 02:41:38 pm »
Ignore

Abolition: the abolition of the national government in favor of the creation of multiple nations.

Unitarianism: the abolition of the regional governments, with all powers thereof shifted to the national government.

I'd also propose breaking up Smid's proposal into:

Universalism: the creation of a bicameral system in which all participants are a member of the lower house and the upper house is elected.

Parliamentarianism: a parliamentary-style system of governance.

Some people may wish to be universalists and not parliamentarians, whereas others may feel the opposite way.

Could you expand on how delineating the two differently would change the underlying meaning? Or could the broader term come to include either/or during later discussion?

The individual components wouldn't be any different, essentially, but it's breaking it apart that's the important part.  IMO, having a parliamentary system and having a universal system aren't at all mutually implicational; one could easily come up with a universalist system that's basically like what currently exists with everyone else serving in the lower house and a parliamentary system that's unicameral with elected members but no universalism.

So would both proposals that I have listed properly characterize what you mean here? If so then I believe we have a second for your proposal in Lief's proposal and I can place an asterisk next to it.

Looks about right.  I don't particularly support the Presidential Universalism idea, but I figured it should be offered up just in case anyone thinks that parliamentarianism is scary or something Smiley
Logged

Chief Judicial Officer of the Most Serene Republic of the Midwest, registered in the State of Joy, in Atlasia
Recognized National Treasure of Atlasia
Warner for Senate '14
benconstine
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30648
United States


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2009, 02:43:05 pm »
Ignore

Federal:

-Parliamentary System with a 6 member Upper House, comprised of the Governor of each of the three regions, and one other member per-region.
-The Lower House would comprise all other members of Atlasia not serving in the Upper House, who have voted in the previous election.  A member can be expelled for inactivity (i.e. only voting and nothing else) by a 3/5 majority of the Lower House.
-The Lower House will elect a Prime Minister from either its ranks or the ranks of the Upper House.  The nominee must then receive a majority vote of all Atlasian citizens.

Regional:

-3 Regional Governments, each with their own Constitution, and their own functions.
-Each Region will elect two members of the Upper House: their Governor, and one other person.  These elections (for Governor and At-Large Member) will be held in January, May, and September.
-The Region can recall either their Governor or At-Large Member by a 3/5 vote in the Region.


Stop thinking you're a delegate. Since you're not.

I am entitled to participate in the Convention, whether I'm a delegate or not.  I make no claims to be a delegate, or to have voting rights, or anything of the sort.  I'm giving my views on the Convention, which I am allowed to do.
Logged

Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6780
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2009, 02:50:23 pm »
Ignore

Abolition: the abolition of the national government in favor of the creation of multiple nations.

Unitarianism: the abolition of the regional governments, with all powers thereof shifted to the national government.

I'd also propose breaking up Smid's proposal into:

Universalism: the creation of a bicameral system in which all participants are a member of the lower house and the upper house is elected.

Parliamentarianism: a parliamentary-style system of governance.

Some people may wish to be universalists and not parliamentarians, whereas others may feel the opposite way.

Could you expand on how delineating the two differently would change the underlying meaning? Or could the broader term come to include either/or during later discussion?

The individual components wouldn't be any different, essentially, but it's breaking it apart that's the important part.  IMO, having a parliamentary system and having a universal system aren't at all mutually implicational; one could easily come up with a universalist system that's basically like what currently exists with everyone else serving in the lower house and a parliamentary system that's unicameral with elected members but no universalism.

So would both proposals that I have listed properly characterize what you mean here? If so then I believe we have a second for your proposal in Lief's proposal and I can place an asterisk next to it.

Looks about right.  I don't particularly support the Presidential Universalism idea, but I figured it should be offered up just in case anyone thinks that parliamentarianism is scary or something Smiley

Okay, that kinda looks like a double seconding of both Presidential Universalism and Presidential Parliamentarian. Any objection to me starring both of them?

If not, I think we have enough viable options to begin debate followed by a vote on which to pursue. If there are no objections by tonight around 10pm EST I will start a new thread for that.
Logged

Marokai/Purple Main Campaign Thread

Thank you to all our supporters!

Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31507
South Africa


Political Matrix
E: -1.29, S: -7.30

P P P

View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2009, 02:59:49 pm »
Ignore

I was thinking about this in History class while trying not to fall asleep. I have a few issues with the Smid proposal (which I outlined in that respective thread, but nobody answered), though I agree with the general idea. Should I propose my preferred personal version or should I not since those issues could be fixed later?
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines