Opinion of Mohammed

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You all know my view. Even looking at things from a non-religious perspective he was still clearly a Horrible Person (unlike Jesus.)

[k-onmmunist]

Massive HP.

[Mint]

Massive HP.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

He was really no better than Saddam Hussein.

[anvi]

I don't have a very high opinion of Muhammad.  But...

I personally know lots of Muslims whom I think very highly of.  I think highly of lots of Americans too, even though the nation was founded by slaveowners, colonizers and lots of religious exclusivists, a number of whom nonetheless had astounding political genius but didn't always follow through on their ideals. 

Americans were pretty big fans of Saddam Hussein before 1990.  Gave him political support, weapons and everything.  The lesson being that, very often, the ways we all, whether we are Americans or citizens of other countries, think about the rest of the world and its history are too simplistic. 

[RosettaStoned]

HP. I cant believe people worship that piece of sh**.

[anvi]

Nobody worships Muhammad.  To Muslims, he was just the last of the prophets.  Muslims only worship what they believe to be the one God.

[Eraserhead]

Nobody worships Muhammad.  To Muslims, he was just the last of the prophets.  Muslims only worship what they believe to be the one God.

True, although the Sunnis seem to focus on him in a truly unhealthy fashion. Anyway, he was trash as far as I can tell.

[Sbane]

Pretty much an HP through and through. Most muslims are chill but ideology wise only the sufis are sane.

[anvi]

The reason Sunnis focus on Muhammad so much is because of the Hadith (the records of Muhammd's religious practices) which the four major schools of jurisprudence of Islam take a great deal from.  So, it's not that Sunnis worship him, but they do take Muhammad as a religious exemplar.

Just want to clarify something.  I've stated my own opinion of Muhammad above, so, I'm not trying to be an apologist for him.  But I've taught classes in world religions and philosophy of religion for a long time.  So, part of my instinct here is that I get uncomfortable when I see people going off on a religious tradition that they often (not always) don't know that much about.  I trust people would not like it if others did that to their own tradition.  Secondly, I think Americans get themselves in trouble, especially in foreign policy matters, by making very quick judgments about large traditions and regions that they have often not made much of an effort to understand well.  There are more than 2 billion Muslims in the world (more than one-third of the world's population), and if believing in Islam made them all evil (the presumption above being that the founder of the tradition was evil), then the world would be in a great deal more of a crisis than it is now.  And, like I said, I have lots of Muslim friends that are peaceful and devout and good citizens of wherever they are living (a lot of them belong to peace movements; you'd be amazed at how many Gandhian (non-violence) Muslims there are in South Asia, where, by the way, most of the world's Muslims live).  So, when I see a topic construed like this (Was Muhammad a hero or evil??), it looks to me like a default for asking people what they think of Muslims in general, and I don't think it's right.  How would the Christians on this forum react if somebody posted a topic with the prompt: "Jesus: God's son or false messiah and ignoramous?"  There can be lots of legit disagreements about who Jesus was and what the significance of his life was, but I think Christians would not feel so good about the question.   So, that's the reason for my reaction.

[Sbane]

The reason Sunnis focus on Muhammad so much is because of the Hadith (the records of Muhammd's religious practices) which the four major schools of jurisprudence of Islam take a great deal from.  So, it's not that Sunnis worship him, but they do take Muhammad as a religious exemplar.

Just want to clarify something.  I've stated my own opinion of Muhammad above, so, I'm not trying to be an apologist for him.  But I've taught classes in world religions and philosophy of religion for a long time.  So, part of my instinct here is that I get uncomfortable when I see people going off on a religious tradition that they often (not always) don't know that much about.  I trust people would not like it if others did that to their own tradition.  Secondly, I think Americans get themselves in trouble, especially in foreign policy matters, by making very quick judgments about large traditions and regions that they have often not made much of an effort to understand well.  There are more than 2 billion Muslims in the world (more than one-third of the world's population), and if believing in Islam made them all evil (the presumption above being that the founder of the tradition was evil), then the world would be in a great deal more of a crisis than it is now.  And, like I said, I have lots of Muslim friends that are peaceful and devout and good citizens of wherever they are living (a lot of them belong to peace movements; you'd be amazed at how many Gandhian (non-violence) Muslims there are in South Asia, where, by the way, most of the world's Muslims live).  So, when I see a topic construed like this (Was Muhammad a hero or evil??), it looks to me like a default for asking people what they think of Muslims in general, and I don't think it's right.  How would the Christians on this forum react if somebody posted a topic with the prompt: "Jesus: God's son or false messiah and ignoramous?"  There can be lots of legit disagreements about who Jesus was and what the significance of his life was, but I think Christians would not feel so good about the question.   So, that's the reason for my reaction.

The first "multiculturalism" occurred under the Mughals in India when the attempt was made to create one world religion. This led to the creation of a moderate form of Islam and heavily influenced the Sufi movement. Even to this day the Sufi saints are worshiped by people of all religious backgrounds in India. Many places like Nizammudin railway station and Kotla Mubarakpur are named after them.

[anvi]

Exactly.  I am a pretty big admirer of emperor Akbar and Dara Shikoh from that period of Mughal rule.  Thanks.

[RIP Robert H Bork]

HP

[dead0man]

Nobody worships Muhammad.  To Muslims, he was just the last of the prophets.  Muslims only worship what they believe to be the one God.

But many of them will kill you if you draw him.  You are correct, "worship" might not be the best word, we would need something stronger.

[anvi]

How many?

[dead0man]

I don't know...3 million?  A lot more of them than you'd get if you did the same thing to any other religious figure.

[Iosif]

This thread is a festival of ignorance.

Well done.

[dead0man]

This thread is a festival of ignorance.

Well done.

And you are going to help us get rid of that ignorance with this post?  Why don't you fight our ignorance so we don't make these mistakes again?

[Eraserhead]

This thread is a festival of ignorance.

Well done.

And you are going to help us get rid of that ignorance with this post?  Why don't you fight our ignorance so we don't make these mistakes again?

^^^^

Feel free to enlighten us, Iosif.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Just want to clarify something.  I've stated my own opinion of Muhammad above, so, I'm not trying to be an apologist for him.  But I've taught classes in world religions and philosophy of religion for a long time.  So, part of my instinct here is that I get uncomfortable when I see people going off on a religious tradition that they often (not always) don't know that much about.  I trust people would not like it if others did that to their own tradition.  Secondly, I think Americans get themselves in trouble, especially in foreign policy matters, by making very quick judgments about large traditions and regions that they have often not made much of an effort to understand well.  There are more than 2 billion Muslims in the world (more than one-third of the world's population), and if believing in Islam made them all evil (the presumption above being that the founder of the tradition was evil), then the world would be in a great deal more of a crisis than it is now.  And, like I said, I have lots of Muslim friends that are peaceful and devout and good citizens of wherever they are living (a lot of them belong to peace movements; you'd be amazed at how many Gandhian (non-violence) Muslims there are in South Asia, where, by the way, most of the world's Muslims live).  So, when I see a topic construed like this (Was Muhammad a hero or evil??), it looks to me like a default for asking people what they think of Muslims in general, and I don't think it's right.  How would the Christians on this forum react if somebody posted a topic with the prompt: "Jesus: God's son or false messiah and ignoramous?"  There can be lots of legit disagreements about who Jesus was and what the significance of his life was, but I think Christians would not feel so good about the question.   So, that's the reason for my reaction.

Agreed with most of it.

According to what I know of Islam and of the life of this prophet and of the situation in Arabia at the time he started to preach, I've nothing to reproach to Mohamed, except the fact that he claimed that he spoke in the name of something he called "God", but that's because I'm not monotheist and that's anyway an other debate.

Then, what a constructive and pertinent way to see the world: "Freedom Fighter" or "Horrible person". Outside of the fact that these terms are more or less empty, it's kinda like: "Live or die".

[Lief 🗽]

No worse than any other "prophet". At least a lot of the things he preached were somewhat progressive, with regards to how things were (and would be for centuries) in Europe.

[Joe Biden 2020]

HP.  As a sold-out Christian, I resent the fact that Mohammed tried to discredit the work and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  Thank God he was unsuccessful.

[dead0man]

This thread is a festival of ignorance.

Well done.

And you are going to help us get rid of that ignorance with this post?  Why don't you fight our ignorance so we don't make these mistakes again?

^^^^

Feel free to enlighten us, Iosif.

I guess we remain ignorant Eraserhead.

[Franzl]

HP.  As a sold-out Christian, I resent the fact that Mohammed tried to discredit the work and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  Thank God he was unsuccessful.

[Lief 🗽]

HP.  As a sold-out Christian, I resent the fact that Mohammed tried to discredit the work and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  Thank God he was unsuccessful.

Er, no. Jesus is venerated as a prophet and a messenger of God, in Islam, and his Gospel, while not at the same level as the Koran, is considered a religious text.