Kerry : Tora Bora reference

[Donovan]

Oh lord, it's Alfie redux.

http://www.misfitting.com/?

[??????????]

What is the name of your grey?

[The Duke]

1. I neve rsaid he came to the US solely for the purpose of runnning the website.  I said he was running the website while in the US.  If you can find a quote where I said he came here solely to run the website, find it.  Until then, grow up and stick to the facts.  Don't put words in people's mouths.  Don't spin.  Don't lie.  Don't troll.

2. You made no effort to refute the simple claim I made that Sami in fact did cut  a plea bargain, echanging the dropping of 8 additional charges and accepting the penalty of deportation.  Just like the "No Visa violation" claim, your argument is built on a house of cards.  Eventually, you had to recant your false claim, lets see if you're willing to recant this second false premise.

3. There are not only more than just 12 doves in Idaho, there are whole counties of them.  Look at 2000 (one county).



And 1996 (four counties).



Yes, Virginia, there really are liberals in Idaho.

Again and again, when beaten on substance, you continue with logic fallacies (the argument to authority that you are right because you lived in Boise) to slander (the argument that anyone who disagrees with you is a racist).  Its shameful and insulting, and you are a distraction to these boards like all trolls before you.

[??????????]

Can we get the "served" graphic again?

[The Duke]

For old times sake.

[Donovan]

1. I neve rsaid he came to the US solely for the purpose of runnning the website.  I said he was running the website while in the US.  If you can find a quote where I said he came here solely to run the website, find it.  Until then, grow up and stick to the facts.  Don't put words in people's mouths.  Don't spin.  Don't lie.  Don't troll.

Mr. Ford, I never said, you said that was the sole reason he was here. I said that is the reason that the Feds said that he was here. Duh! That was the argument that the Feds made to the Judge and the Jury. In addition, it was proven that he never did run a website , read the court records buddy.

2. You made no effort to refute the simple claim I made that Sami in fact did cut  a plea bargain, echanging the dropping of 8 additional charges and accepting the penalty of deportation.  Just like the "No Visa violation" claim, your argument is built on a house of cards.  Eventually, you had to recant your false claim, lets see if you're willing to recant this second false premise.

I said this from the beginning if you look at my first posts. Sami has always wanted to go back since this happened. I don't think it was a deal. Sami wanted from the beginning to do anything to be with his family. It was not cutting a deal, in exchange for deportation. He wanted to be deported. He was forced to sign the confession, otherwise he would stay in prison for longer. They kept throwing charges at him because the government wanted to save face. Do you honestly think Sami wanted to come back here after they deported his family to Saudi Arabia? Think about that one. Duh!

 
3. There are not only more than just 12 doves in Idaho, there are whole counties of them.  Look at 2000 (one county).

No, those are called Democrats. About 300 of them in that area. But they are not doves. More like Zell Miller Democrats. You would find more liberals in Latah or Bonner Counties up north. I never said there were not 12 liberals. Your claim that Nevin rigged the jury is just plain retarded and not true. It is so retarded a claim that I am not going to exhaust the effort to disprove it.

And 1996 (four counties).

How do ya suggest we get a jury from 1996 Mr. Ford, you gonna bill da one of da them time machines?



Yes, Virginia, there really are liberals in Idaho.

Again and again, when beaten on substance, you continue with logic fallacies (the argument to authority that you are right because you lived in Boise)

Sorry buddy, WRONG again, I never said I lived in Boise, cuz I don't be liv'n there.  I be living in the same neighborhood as Sami. Remember, I told u I be elected to represent his be community. Oh, u only reading what you want huh?


to slander (the argument that anyone who disagrees with you is a racist).  Its shameful and insulting,

You mean like a guy from 1200 miles away calling a good man in my town a terrorist when anyone with a brain in the county knows he didn't do sh*t. But you know better because you got a of bag lies, accusations, and what if's that have already checked out and discounted 1000 times before your teenage butt came around. We all up here in Idaho with fancy degrees and PhD's don't know diddly about terrorism huh?

Slander, you like you calling Sami a Terrorist, Most people would call that Slander.
Mr. Ford, if you are not a racist. Then explain the following.

Why is that you are determined to prove to yourself, and others, that Sami is terrorist. When all the points you made were already hashed over for almost two years?

You know as well as I do that you don't crap about this case. All you know is what the paper has reported to you?

You make up sh*t about a liberal jury and judge. And that he had a fancy expensive legal team, and that he was connected to all these terrorist network and CAIR. That is all untrue. Which orfus did you get this from?

Everyone knows that the government just made a mistake, and arrested the wrong guy. And now they want to save face. It is that obvious. The entire evidence against Sami amounted to 12 pages. 12 pages of information and was all speculation and hardly admissible. All the evidence was knocked down.

The ONLY reason for saying this man is guilty is either stupidity, or racism. Period.

Why are you so obsessed with retrying a man when men more conservative than you have said he is INNOCENT? Leave Sami alone. You are the troll and the harasser, an idiot, that doesn't know when to quit. All your scrap I already heard long before you came along, we have examined it, and it was defeated in court.



Here is the story summed up for others:

http://www.webcom.com/maxang/wildcat/crusade.html

According to the Idaho Statesman, Judge Edward Lodge -- a Republican appointee and noted conservative -- is on the verge of throwing out the government's most serious charges because prosecutors are apparently concocting evidence from thin air:
Lodge told attorneys on both sides he will allow some foundation evidence that prosecutors already entered on a specific rule of evidence. The rule requires prosecutors to ultimately show co-conspiracy between Al-Hussayen and others to provide material support and resources for terrorism.

But if prosecutors don't prove that conspiracy to the judge's satisfaction, "this case is out as far as those charges go," Lodge said.

"I am not going to be led into a trap here," Lodge said, before chastising the lawyers on both sides for arguing about what should be admitted as evidence. "We are way out there (with evidence)."

Last week, Lodge already disallowed prosecutors' attempts to show the jury a Web page encouraging suicide bombings, saying the government had to prove that al-Hussayen created the page or endorsed its contents.

What's particularly disturbing about this trial is that prosecutors are proceeding with it in spite of the fact that another federal judge already ruled that the portion of the Patriot Act under which they are charging al-Hussayen is unconstitutional.

[The Duke]

Look, I don't have time to rebut everything you said because its not that important.  I'll just hit the main ones and then I'll leave you be.

I am not obsessed with this case.  You brought it up as evidence that the government is a bunch of lying bigots (a theme in your posts is that anyone who disagrees is a racist) and I refuted point after point.  This thread is about Tora Bora, and until you dropped in with your victim stories, we were having a lively talk about something important.  Any point I didn't refute was refuted by another poster, such as your fallacy that aquittal means you are actually innocent.  I had never heard of this case before you brought it up, and after researching the case (by googling it, per your request at the bottom of page 4) I found your argument to be lacking.

I am not a teenager.  For someone who claims "Well you did it with you statements. And sorry to say,  I looked you up and researched you on the internet. Not so hard. You are connected to the internet right now.", it seems my age eludes you.  It's in my profile btw.  I'm 20.

Sami Omar was connected to CAIR, and Bessam Khafagi, one of the many other former Idaho students arrested in the FBI sting that caught Sami Omar Hussein, was one of the higher ranking folks at the CAIR central office in DC.

The point of the electoral maps is not to demand a jury from 8 years ago, it is disprove your characterization of Idaho as a redneck, back country, dissent free, Bush backing state.  There are liberals in Idaho, so your characterization that oh even in Idaho they think he's guilt was bunk from moment one.

This thread is about Tora Bora, as I said before, and if anyone from the 51% who claim the US government intentionally let a wanted terrorist slip away at Tora Bora wants to debate that point with me, they should try now.  I will make no more comments on Sami Omar Husseyn, since he is not the topic of the thread, and I've already won the point anyway.

[Donovan]

I am not obsessed with this case.  You brought it up as evidence that the government is a bunch of lying bigots (a theme in your posts is that anyone who disagrees is a racist) and I refuted point after point.

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No you didn't, you lied, and made stuff up and then asked me to disprove it. That is not refuting anything.

 This thread is about Tora Bora, and until you dropped in with your victim stories, we were having a lively talk about something important.  Any point I didn't refute was refuted by another poster, such as your fallacy that acquittal means you are actually innocent.

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I never stated this. You make up it. Then attack. Like the Boise garbage.   


I had never heard of this case before you brought it up,

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That is obvious


I am not a teenager.  For someone who claims "Well you did it with you statements. And sorry to say,  I looked you up and researched you on the internet. Not so hard. You are connected to the internet right now.", it seems my age eludes you.  It's in my profile btw.  I'm 20.

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Oh, sorry. The Big 2-0. That just makes takes you so much out of the realm of 18 and 19. Soon as you turn 20, that means you are no longer are a teen and really know the guilt and innocence of anyone.

Sami Omar was connected to CAIR, and Bessam Khafagi, one of the many other former Idaho students arrested in the FBI sting that caught Sami Omar Hussein, was one of the higher ranking folks at the CAIR central office in DC.

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Dumbass Comment, Khafagi was not a student at the time, he was student at UI 16 years ago. He was arrested in New York City for bank fraud, not terrorism. It has nothing to do with Sami. Sami is from Saudi Arabia, Khafagi is from Egypt. There is not any connection there. Sami moved to UI 11 years AFTER Khafagi graduated. You really like to make sh*t up don't up?

The point of the electoral maps is not to demand a jury from 8 years ago, it is disprove your characterization of Idaho as a redneck, back country, dissent free, Bush backing state.

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Now you are insane. I offered that up in refute of your insane claim that Nevin packed the jury with a bunch of liberals, which is an outlandish claim with not one bit of evidence yet you insist upon being one of your logical arguments.

This thread is about Tora Bora, as I said before, and if anyone from the 51% who claim the US government intentionally let a wanted terrorist slip away at Tora Bora wants to debate that point with me, they should try now.

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Yes that is what it is about. It is not a thread about let's retry Sammi, and make the evidence up. You wanted me to sit back and allow you to attack a member of my community, by some teenage in LA that thinks he knows it all. I don't think so. Sammi has been slamed enough.

I will make no more comments on Sami Omar Husseyn, since he is not the topic of the thread, and I've already won the point anyway.

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Only according to you Mr. Ford. He is free, and everyone that heard the case has found him NOT guilty. You sure like asking questions and making accusations, but sure as hell cannot answer them. In order to WIN a debate, you must actually respond to the questions asked. Which you did not. All you did was ask me to disprove negatives, which is illogical and not possible.

Anyone that followed the links I gave, knows that you made your facts up, and just carried a big bag what ifs, and made baseless accusations in an attempt to prove an innocent man guilty.

Take Care

[ATFFL]

I'm sorry, DOnovan, but I see a number of gaps in your knowledge of the case which contradict your earlier statements that you were personally involved in it.  If you were you would know the full list of charges brought against Sami.

Finally, your debate skills are sorely lacking.  You make broad, unfounded statements and then claim to have never said nor implied them when challenged by John Ford.  WHen challenged on your claims you launch ad hominem attacks.

Oh, Dave has asked us to change the way we post links so it does not stretch the page.  I think he would appreciate it if you fixed your link.