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Author Topic: Parliamentary Bicameralism (Discussion Open)  (Read 44804 times)
Purple State
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« Reply #175 on: April 19, 2009, 09:32:11 pm »
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I think it would be wise to begin working on this from the offices first, before we move on to holdovers like regions, Bill of Rights, etc.

We can always go back and amend these as things come up, but it would be best to get the real body of the proposal fleshed out. Anyone want to write up an article or two?
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Devilman88
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« Reply #176 on: April 19, 2009, 09:39:51 pm »
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I think it would be wise to begin working on this from the offices first, before we move on to holdovers like regions, Bill of Rights, etc.

We can always go back and amend these as things come up, but it would be best to get the real body of the proposal fleshed out. Anyone want to write up an article or two?

I can try to write something tomorrow, I'm to sleepy to write on right now.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #177 on: April 20, 2009, 05:56:39 am »
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I'll write something up if I have to. Someone has to rise up and counter (again) the recycled and dangerous universalist proposals floating towards the top yet again.

Is there any specific order?
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« Reply #178 on: April 20, 2009, 09:40:33 am »
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I'll write something up if I have to. Someone has to rise up and counter (again) the recycled and dangerous universalist proposals floating towards the top yet again.

Is there any specific order?

Oh, sorry. Didn't realise we were no longer allowed to talk about ideas.
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Devilman88
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« Reply #179 on: April 20, 2009, 11:40:41 am »
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Article _: The Congress of Atlasia

Section 1: Formation of the Senate

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then two hundred posts and doesn't hold any other office in Atlasia shall eligible to hold a Senate Seat in Atlasia.

2. The Senate shall be made up of five members, one elected from each region. ( If we have three regions then one from each region and two at-large)

 3. The Senate shall elect a PPT who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the Senate and managing every day business.

Section 2: Formation of the House

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then one hundred posts and does not hold a Federal or Head of Region office shall be eligible to hold a House Seat in Atlasia.

2. The House shall be made up of fifteen members, three elected from each region. (If we have three regions then three from each region and six at-large)

3.  The House shall elect a Speaker of the House who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the House and managing every day business.
   i. The SoH must be a member of the party who has the most members in the House.



Some one needs to just add the powers of the Senate and House and we are on our way.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 11:57:01 am by $Dan$ »Logged

PASOK Leader Hashemite
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« Reply #180 on: April 20, 2009, 11:43:51 am »
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1. Any person who registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then two hundred posts and doesn't hold any other office in Atlasia shall eligible to run for a Senate Seat in Atlasia.

?!? You can't even run if you hold another office? Jesus Christ.

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then one hundred posts and does not hold a fedural or Head of Region office shall be eligible to run for a House Seat in Atlasia.

See above.

3.  The House shall elect a Speaker of the House who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the House and managing every day business.
   i. The SoH must be a member of the party who has the most members in the House.

I don't see why a guy that only chairs debate and does day to day procedural stuff should be a partisan position.

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Devilman88
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« Reply #181 on: April 20, 2009, 11:51:56 am »
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Quote
1. Any person who registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then two hundred posts and doesn't hold any other office in Atlasia shall eligible to run for a Senate Seat in Atlasia.

?!? You can't even run if you hold another office? Jesus Christ.

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then one hundred posts and does not hold a Federal or Head of Region office shall be eligible to run for a House Seat in Atlasia.

See above.


I worded that wrong, I was trying to say you can't hold two office if you are a senator. But you could be a House member and hold another office as long as it isn't a senate or head of state(governor).

Quote

3.  The House shall elect a Speaker of the House who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the House and managing every day business.
   i. The SoH must be a member of the party who has the most members in the House.

I don't see why a guy that only chairs debate and does day to day procedural stuff should be a partisan position.



That can be changed, I just think it would spice things up.
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Devilman88
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« Reply #182 on: April 20, 2009, 11:56:04 am »
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I changed it from run to hold.
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IDS Judicial Overlord PiT
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« Reply #183 on: April 20, 2009, 12:35:28 pm »
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     I don't see any reason why the powers of Congress should be any different from what they are under the current Constitution.
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Devilman88
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« Reply #184 on: April 20, 2009, 12:45:13 pm »
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     I don't see any reason why the powers of Congress should be any different from what they are under the current Constitution.

I was thinking the same thing, but maybe giving the Senate more power then the House, or something like that. I'm not good at make the powers out. If anyone wants to make that out it would be great.
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Devilman88
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« Reply #185 on: April 20, 2009, 05:17:22 pm »
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Article _: The Congress of Atlasia

Section 1: Formation of the Senate

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then two hundred posts and doesn't hold any other office in Atlasia shall be eligible to hold a Senate Seat in Atlasia.

2. The Senate shall be made up of five members, one elected from each region. ( If we have three regions then one from each region and two at-large)

 3. The Senate shall elect a PPT who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the Senate and managing every day business.

Section 2: Formation of the House

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then one hundred posts and does not hold a Federal or Head of Region office shall be eligible to hold a House Seat in Atlasia.

2. The House shall be made up of fifteen members, three elected from each region. (If we have three regions then three from each region and six at-large)

3.  The House shall elect a Speaker of the House who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the House and managing every day business.

Section 3 . Powers of the Congress
[insert the current Article 1, Section 5 here]

Section 4. Powers denied to the Congress
[insert the current Article 1, Section 6 here]

Section 5. Powers denied to the Regions
[insert the current Article 1, Section 7 here]
But change Section 7 number 2 of Article 1 to the following:
"No Region can issues coins/currencies or repeal coins/currencies issues by the Congree of Atlasia."



How is that?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 09:29:05 pm by $Dan$ »Logged

RG Fritz
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« Reply #186 on: April 20, 2009, 08:33:45 pm »
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Finally, someone has produced a proto-constitution that I have no objections to!!!

Thanks $Dan$!
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Purple State
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« Reply #187 on: April 20, 2009, 08:38:02 pm »
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That seems like something we can work with. Needs to be more hashed out, but a good start.
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Devilman88
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« Reply #188 on: April 20, 2009, 08:47:28 pm »
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That seems like something we can work with. Needs to be more hashed out, but a good start.

What needs to be changed? I can work with it.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #189 on: April 20, 2009, 09:18:26 pm »
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In "Powers Denied to the Regions" I hope we could alter the existing article a bit to include more clarification towards regions creating their own currencies, considering the recent court battle fought over the topic.

Also, has anyone seen my brief mention of a "Department of Statistics" idea on the other board? I know it's a bit of an out-there idea, but it would be interesting to have a bit more structure towards individual fantasyland rules and could create occasional fictional issues or crises that the government would have to develop solutions for.
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Devilman88
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« Reply #190 on: April 20, 2009, 09:30:07 pm »
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In "Powers Denied to the Regions" I hope we could alter the existing article a bit to include more clarification towards regions creating their own currencies, considering the recent court battle fought over the topic.

Also, has anyone seen my brief mention of a "Department of Statistics" idea on the other board? I know it's a bit of an out-there idea, but it would be interesting to have a bit more structure towards individual fantasyland rules and could create occasional fictional issues or crises that the government would have to develop solutions for.

I added something about the currencies.
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Purple State
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« Reply #191 on: April 20, 2009, 09:49:39 pm »
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Just needs more detail. Something like this:

Article 1: The Congress of Atlasia

Section 1: Formation of the Senate
1. The Senate shall be composed of five Senators, each with a term of six months. All Senators shall be elected from the Regions. ( If we have three regions then one from each region and two at-large)
2. No Person shall be eligible to run for Senate who has not attained two hundred or more posts, and is not a registered voter in the Region that they represent. A Senator may not hold any other public office in Atlasia for the duration of their term.
3. The Senate shall choose their other officers, and also a President pro tempore, who shall act as President of the Senate in the absence of the Vice President and who shall manage the everyday business of the Senate.
4. The Vice President of the Republic of Atlasia shall be the President of the Senate, but shall have no vote unless they be equally divided.

Section 2: Formation of the House
1. The House of Representatives, herein referred to as House, shall be made up of fifteen Represtatives, each with a term of two months. All Representatives shall be elected from the Regions. (If we have three regions then three from each region and six at-large)
2. No Person shall be eligible to run for the House who has not attained one hundred or more posts, and is not a registered voter in the Region that they represent. A Representative may not hold any other federal or executive office in Atlasia for the duration of their term.
3. The House shall elect a Speaker of the House who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the House and for managing every day business.

Section 3: Congressional Rules and Legislation
1. The separate chambers of Congress may establish their own rules of procedure, and with the concurrence of two-thirds of its number, respectively, may expel a member of the same chamber.
2. Each chamber shall have fulfilled a quorum if a majority of its members are capable of discharging their offices and sworn into office. A quorum in each chamber shall have voted on any Resolution, Bill, Impeachment or Constitutional Amendment for it to be considered valid.
3. For any Bill or Resolution to pass the Congress, it shall have gained a majority in a valid vote in each respective chamber. Before the Bill or Resolution becomes Law, it shall be presented to the PPT, Speaker, and sponsors of the Bill or Resolution from each chamber for conference, unless it be concerning the rules for the proceedings of a chamber. Upon resolution of any differences between the separate versions of legislation, the Bill or Resolution shall be returned to both chambers for approval. If passed by both chambers separately, the revised Bill or Resolution shall then be presented to the President of the Republic of Atlasia. If the President approves, he shall sign it, and it shall become Law. If the President does not approve, he shall return the Bill with his objections to the Congress, and it shall not become Law. Upon reconsidering the Bill, if each chamber shall approve the legislation by two-thirds of its number, it shall become Law. If a Bill is not returned to the Congress by the President within seven days after it shall have been presented to him, it shall become Law regardless.

Section 4: Elections to Congress
1. Elections for the Senate shall be held in the months of January and July; Elections for the House shall be held on every odd numbered month of the year.
2. Elections shall be held from midnight Eastern Standard Time on the third Friday of a given month and shall conclude exactly 72 hours later.
3. If a vacancy shall occur in the House, then the Governor of that Representative's Region shall appoint a person to fill the remainder of that term.
4. If a vacancy shall occur in the Senate, then a special election shall be called to fill the remainder of the vacated term within one week of the vacancy occurring; Such special election shall be held from midnight Eastern Standard Time on a Friday and shall conclude exactly 72 hours later. However, if a vacancy shall occur when there is a person due to assume that office within two weeks, then no special election shall be necessary.
5. The Senate shall have necessary power to determine regulations for the procedure of and the form of Congressional elections and shall have necessary power to determine a procedure for declaration of candidacy for such elections. All elections to Congress shall be by public post.
6. Those elected in ordinary elections to Congress shall take office at noon Eastern Standard Time on the Friday following their election. Those elected in special elections to the Senate or appointed to the House shall take office as soon as the result of their election or appointment has been formally declared.

Section 5: Powers of the Congress (with some small edits later)
[insert the current Article 1, Section 5 here]

Section 6: Powers denied to the Congress (with some small edits later)
[insert the current Article 1, Section 6 here]

Section 7: Powers denied to the Regions (with some small edits later)
[insert the current Article 1, Section 7 here]
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« Reply #192 on: April 20, 2009, 09:55:06 pm »
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That is great, but are we going to have a VP under this plan?
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« Reply #193 on: April 20, 2009, 10:19:46 pm »
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That is great, but are we going to have a VP under this plan?

I imagine so. It seems weird to have a President without a VP. It also extends a sort of check by the President. We could also leave the VP-Senate relationship to the PM, but I would like someone independent of the Senate to have this power. The PM will have his own stuff.
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« Reply #194 on: April 20, 2009, 10:23:00 pm »
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That is great, but are we going to have a VP under this plan?

I imagine so. It seems weird to have a President without a VP. It also extends a sort of check by the President. We could also leave the VP-Senate relationship to the PM, but I would like someone independent of the Senate to have this power. The PM will have his own stuff.

Oh ok, I really don't know how Parliamentary work and what they have, but I guess we can make it how we want.

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« Reply #195 on: April 21, 2009, 07:14:59 am »
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That is great, but are we going to have a VP under this plan?

I imagine so. It seems weird to have a President without a VP. It also extends a sort of check by the President. We could also leave the VP-Senate relationship to the PM, but I would like someone independent of the Senate to have this power. The PM will have his own stuff.

What would be the use of a President, a Vice President, and Prime Minister? The PM is the head of government, the President will probably end up ceremonial, but the VP? Is it really wise to have that many roles in government?

I'll oppose any plan for this setup VP. If you want a VP, vote for presidential parliamentarian.
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Purple State
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« Reply #196 on: April 21, 2009, 10:22:56 am »
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That is great, but are we going to have a VP under this plan?

I imagine so. It seems weird to have a President without a VP. It also extends a sort of check by the President. We could also leave the VP-Senate relationship to the PM, but I would like someone independent of the Senate to have this power. The PM will have his own stuff.

What would be the use of a President, a Vice President, and Prime Minister? The PM is the head of government, the President will probably end up ceremonial, but the VP? Is it really wise to have that many roles in government?

I'll oppose any plan for this setup VP. If you want a VP, vote for presidential parliamentarian.

So what is your proposal for President of the Senate? Should we use the Dean, which would be an already elected member?
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Devilman88
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« Reply #197 on: April 21, 2009, 02:07:56 pm »
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That is great, but are we going to have a VP under this plan?

I imagine so. It seems weird to have a President without a VP. It also extends a sort of check by the President. We could also leave the VP-Senate relationship to the PM, but I would like someone independent of the Senate to have this power. The PM will have his own stuff.

What would be the use of a President, a Vice President, and Prime Minister? The PM is the head of government, the President will probably end up ceremonial, but the VP? Is it really wise to have that many roles in government?

I'll oppose any plan for this setup VP. If you want a VP, vote for presidential parliamentarian.

So what is your proposal for President of the Senate? Should we use the Dean, which would be an already elected member?

Why not the President or PM?
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Purple State
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« Reply #198 on: April 21, 2009, 02:22:08 pm »
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That is great, but are we going to have a VP under this plan?

I imagine so. It seems weird to have a President without a VP. It also extends a sort of check by the President. We could also leave the VP-Senate relationship to the PM, but I would like someone independent of the Senate to have this power. The PM will have his own stuff.

What would be the use of a President, a Vice President, and Prime Minister? The PM is the head of government, the President will probably end up ceremonial, but the VP? Is it really wise to have that many roles in government?

I'll oppose any plan for this setup VP. If you want a VP, vote for presidential parliamentarian.

So what is your proposal for President of the Senate? Should we use the Dean, which would be an already elected member?

Why not the President or PM?

President already has veto power and PM will have been involved in the vote. It's up to how much overlap you are all willing to tolerate.
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« Reply #199 on: April 21, 2009, 03:41:50 pm »
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That is great, but are we going to have a VP under this plan?

I imagine so. It seems weird to have a President without a VP. It also extends a sort of check by the President. We could also leave the VP-Senate relationship to the PM, but I would like someone independent of the Senate to have this power. The PM will have his own stuff.

What would be the use of a President, a Vice President, and Prime Minister? The PM is the head of government, the President will probably end up ceremonial, but the VP? Is it really wise to have that many roles in government?

I'll oppose any plan for this setup VP. If you want a VP, vote for presidential parliamentarian.

So what is your proposal for President of the Senate? Should we use the Dean, which would be an already elected member?

A President of the Senate elected from the ranks of the Senate that holds that post and no other. Like the President of the French Senate.

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