This shooting rampage comes two days after I turned in my pro-CCW English paper

[Reaganfan]

Proves my point. Frickin' NY has no concealed carry law, thus no chance that a permitted individual with a weapon could stop a rampage.

[Keystone Phil]

This thread has the potential to become a real classic.

[Reaganfan]

This thread has the potential to become a real classic.

Making a joke out of a deadly rampage? Real nice. What's wrong with having a pro-CCW position?

[minionofmidas]

What about Alabama?

[Lunar]

Reaganfan, are you saying that if there were conceal to carry laws, then employees at the American Civic Association in New York City would have taken advantage of these laws to defend themselves with firearms, or that this suicidal murderer would have been too afraid to commit his rampage because he'd mistakenly assume that the employees at the American Civic Association in New York City, an NYC group that helps immigrants acquire visas, would be armed?

The deterrent effect from CCW laws works better against robberies than rampages...

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

anyone know the whereabouts of CARLHAYDEN?

[Lunar]

he'll turn up.  I mean, I like CCW laws but I don't see how they would have prevented this particular rampage

[Reaganfan]

he'll turn up.  I mean, I like CCW laws but I don't see how they would have prevented this particular rampage

Maybe not this particular one, but the many others.

Anybody notice these tend to happen in April?

April 20, 1999
April 16, 2007
April 3, 2009

[Keystone Phil]

What's wrong with having a pro-CCW position?

I didn't say there was anything wrong. Your logic, however, isn't that great though...

[Eraserhead]

Proves my point. Frickin' NY has no concealed carry law, thus no chance that a permitted individual with a weapon could stop a rampage.

Yeah, too bad Hulk Hogan wasn't there either. He could have just given the killer the big boot and the leg drop. End of story.

[Lunar]

he'll turn up.  I mean, I like CCW laws but I don't see how they would have prevented this particular rampage

Maybe not this particular one

then stop trivializing their deaths for something that has nothing to do with what you're talking about

[Reaganfan]

Proves my point. Frickin' NY has no concealed carry law, thus no chance that a permitted individual with a weapon could stop a rampage.

Yeah, too bad Hulk Hogan wasn't there either. He could have just given the killer the big boot and the leg drop. End of story.

Yeah, or Hulk.

[Linus Van Pelt]

Reaganfan, are you saying that if there were conceal to carry laws, then employees at the American Civic Association in New York City would have taken advantage of these laws to defend themselves with firearms, or that this suicidal murderer would have been too afraid to commit his rampage because he'd mistakenly assume that the employees at the American Civic Association in New York City, an NYC group that helps immigrants acquire visas, would be armed?

The deterrent effect from CCW laws works better against robberies than rampages...

the shooting was in Binghamton, which is well upstate.

[Lunar]

Ah, well, valid point, I just assumed all such places in New York are in the city. 

It's still a liberal immigration center that helps refugees, right?

[Meeker]

It's still a liberal immigration center that helps refugees, right?

Yes, and those are exactly the sort of people who would carry a concealed weapon. Don't be a liburl hack, Loonur.

[Lunar]

[CARLHAYDEN]

anyone know the whereabouts of CARLHAYDEN?

This one didn't get much play by the liberal press:

Robber fatally shot in Miami Burger King holdup
A robbery at a Burger King in Miami's Upper East Side neighborhood left one person dead and another seriously injured.

BY ROBERT SAMUELS
rsamuels@MiamiHerald.com

An afternoon shootout at a busy Burger King restaurant in Miami left a potential robber dead and the customer who shot him seriously wounded.

The bloody event unfolded about 4 p.m. Tuesday at the restaurant at Northeast 54th Street and Biscayne Boulevard. It was a time, employees said, when it is usually crowded with schoolchildren and people getting out of work early.

The robber entered wearing a ski mask. He approached a clerk, showed his gun and demanded money, said Miami police spokesman Jeff Giordano.

A customer eyed him and the two started arguing. The customer had a concealed-weapons permit and his gun -- and the two exchanged gunfire.

The robber crumpled to the floor and was pronounced dead at the scene.

The customer, with several gunshot wounds, was in serious but stable condition at Jackson Memorial Hospital's Ryder Trauma Center.

Officers divided witnesses into several groups outside the restaurant to gather information about the incident. Employees waiting to start their shift called friends and family members on their cellphones to pass the time because they were not allowed through the police tape.

''I just hope all my people are OK inside,'' said Cynthia Thomas, who has worked at the Burger King for five years. ``It is scary.''

Around them, drivers on busy Biscayne Boulevard gawked at the scene.

The area is a prime destination for residents in the Upper East Side neighborhood -- featuring Soyka's restaurant, Sushi Siam and Andiamo Pizza.

[Lief 🗽]

Hopefully that customer is charged with some sort of murder or manslaughter charge.

[CultureKing]

I really cannot say how angry it makes me when arguements are made for concealed weapons laws when no real evidence is used. Circumstantial evidence counts for very, very little, I will welcome arguements when they are given in a logical way. So far this thread has shown a great number of fallacies that could probably serve as a great lesson plan for my philosophy class.

[Lunar]

I really cannot say how angry it makes me when arguements are made for concealed weapons laws when no real evidence is used. Circumstantial evidence counts for very, very little, I will welcome arguements when they are given in a logical way. So far this thread has shown a great number of fallacies that could probably serve as a great lesson plan for my philosophy class.

Well, there are cases where people would have had guns to stop a murder if it weren't for the laws on the books, although the actual percentage is, of course, unknown.  And there are, or could be, an unknown amount of deterred crimes, but these are unlikely to be murder-suicide rampages, since the thought of being shot to death usually isn't a deterrent to someone who is going to shoot himself that day anyway.  These can be weighed against the theoretical or tangible arguments against CCW laws like, say, the typical leftist argument that road rages could turn into shootouts at the OK Corral or whatever.

But CCW laws would have been very unlikely to affect this latest rampage in New York.  They're not a be-all and end-all to homicide even if Reaganfan would like to think so.

[Keystone Phil]

Just to show an interesting contrast, the kid who killed three cops in Pittsburgh today feared that the government was trying to take away his guns/freedom - http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09094/960662-455.stm


And please don't take this posting as an "anti gun" post. I just want to show Naso that this stuff goes both ways.