Repeal of the Illegal Immigrant Act (Awaiting Presidential Signature/Veto)

[Franzl]

So wait, are we saying that any illegal alien that receives medical care will automatically be deported because he "benefited from taxpayer-funded services"?

I don't think that's very reasonable. I do, of course, agree that any illegal involved in crime or terrorism must be deported....sure.

Personally, I'm not all that supportive of much change to the existing piece of legislation.

[Franzl]

So wait, are we saying that any illegal alien that receives medical care will automatically be deported because he "benefited from taxpayer-funded services"?

Yes. It is incredibly costly to taxpayers to deal with the medical expenses of millions of illegal immigrants. It is fine if they want the medical care, but then we are deporting them after they recover. Otherwise, we become the free clinic of the world.

I can't support that.

All that would do is make illegal immigrants afraid to seek medical care because they don't want to be deported, much like people that can't afford health insurance also think long and hard about whether they really want to see a doctor...only, in the case of illegals, it's a matter that will have immediate negative effects.

[Franzl]

It's not necessarily unlimited debt. I mean...really poor people will have no way of even entering Atlasia.....yes, I am aware that lots of people do enter illegally every day, but the answer is to increase border security, and work on a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants currently in Atlasia. People that are presently here should not have to be afraid of seeking urgent medical care, should it be necessary. That's just asking for trouble, not to mention that the costs of a dead illegal immigrant should also not be underestimated. Who cares for his family? Does the family then resort to criminal activity? (Not to mention the missing sales tax revenues...It's not like illegals don't pay anything.)

If we want to seriously solve the problem, we need to work on making these people legal, productive members of society. Threatening to deport anyone that dares to require medical care will cause more problems than it could solve.

[Franzl]

I like the most recent amendment you posted, PS.

Please note that I really do understand the reasoning behind your wish to deport illegal immigrants who use government services...it seems reasonable....but I really do fear what that might have for indirect results and consequences. Even though it seems just....considering that sick illegals certainly use more than they ever give back.

Anyway...thanks for your efforts in writing this amendment, I appreciate it.


To Bacon King....umm, well, I don't quite understand why we in Atlasia put an artificial price tag on certain things. (Or was that an estimate from the real world on what a potential fence might cost, PS? I have no idea.).

Regardless, it probably is worth the money...at least subjectively.

[Franzl]

Abstain

[Franzl]

Irrespective of the last vote....this has failed.

Let's keep the ball rolling

[Franzl]

Aye on the amendment.

[Franzl]

Aye

[Franzl]

6-0 Aye, this has passed. It's a shame that so few senators bothered to vote, though.

[Franzl]

I'm currently undecided, to be honest.

[Franzl]

Don't quite know why we're voting on cloture....as we could have waited 24 hours. (Judging by this Senate's level of activity recently that probably wouldn't have been very hard)...but ok, since it has been called....I'll vote in it.

on cloture: AYE

[Franzl]

I respect Senator Lief's concerns about there being no new path to citizenship for illegals that come to Atlasia from now on, and I would definitely vote against this legislation if there was any indication that former illegals would lose their citizenship for any reason that was acquired under the old law (obviously, there are legal restraints on that sort of thing, as PiT and Smid pointed out numerous times.).

Ultimately...I don't know if getting rid of a path to citizenship will really serve as a deterrent again illegal immigration, as Purple State suggests. I'm not sure it's possible to say at this point, although I do believe that something needs to be done to show potential illegals that their actions won't be rewarded should they come to this country after this bill becomes law. Obviously...what illegals received under the previous law has no effect on what future policy necessarily needs to be....and I ultimately think it's worth giving a try.

My vote is AYE.

[Franzl]

The Illegal Immigrant Act of 2009
Section 1: Replacement
1. F.L. 18-8 is hereby repealed

Section 2: State Services
1. No hospital or place of medical care may deny treatment to a person based on their status as an alien or non-citizen.
2. Within two weeks after the passage of this act, employers paying below the minimum wage to illegal aliens shall be prosecuted as if they were paying below the minimum wage to legal workers.
3. The government shall fully fund all services for illegal immigrants required by this law incurred by citizens of Atlasia.

Section 3: Deportation
1. Any illegal immigrant found to have committed or planned to commit a crime or act of terror shall immediately be detained and deported to their country of origin.
2. Upon detention and deportation of an illegal immigrant, any member of said immigrant's family that holds alien status may opt to return along with their family member or remain in Atlasia. This does not preclude the deportation of those aliens that wish to remain at a later date due to separate violations.
3. Detention and deportation may be delayed to allow for recovery from illness or life-threatening circumstances on a case by case basis.

[Franzl]

6-1 currently. This bill has enough votes to pass.

[Franzl]

I prefer the original act.

veto

Amazing....you bothered to come veto a bill that didn't pass anyway because the next Senate has already begun. Congratulations.

[Franzl]

I prefer the original act.

veto

Amazing....you bothered to come veto a bill that didn't pass anyway because the next Senate has already begun. Congratulations.

Well I'm terribly sorry, oh great Franzl. Perhaps I misunderstood (or was reading something out of date on the Wiki: https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Current_Senate_Rules%2C_Regulations%2C_and_Procedures#Article_9:_Transitionary_Arrangements)

I apologize, I assumed it worked like the U.S. Senate and that the end of the Senate effectively meant a "pocket veto".

Look, I've just been aggrevated because you haven't been doing anything really as President, you don't bother to sign things, veto things unless I or someone else pm's you.....you failed to respond or act on both of my messages requesting an explanation concerning your veto on the middle east act.

What the heck is going on?

[Franzl]

Look, I've just been aggrevated because you haven't been doing anything really as President, you don't bother to sign things, veto things unless I or someone else pm's you.....you failed to respond or act on both of my messages requesting an explanation concerning your veto on the middle east act.

What the heck is going on?

Hey, nobody reminded me this time!

But often the thread title will say something like "In debate" or "voting on cloture" and I assume my presence is not yet required. Not to say that I haven't been a few days late several times. Plus, when Lewis was PPT during my first term he kept sending me PMs immediately after a bill was passed, so perhaps I was spoiled in that regard...

And I am not required to offer an explanation when I veto something. If I do not, it's probably safe to say I agreed with the dissenting Senators' opinion. But I will try to at least offer a short explanation from now on if it means that much to you...

Yeah, I know you're not "required" to offer any explanation.....but it would be kind of nice if it's requested....especially when more than once I was worried about getting it passed because senators were waiting to vote until they saw your explanation, at least that's what I thought.

Anyway....sorry for my less than cordial tone.....in the last couple of posts....don't really mean to offend you....it's just that I would appreciate a slightly higher level of involvement and activity, especially concerning things like that. It's not that you aren't online enough.....I see that No excuses!