Gonzales, Yoo, Feith to be indicted by Spanish prosecutors for torture?

[ag]

Spain doesn't have jurisdiction over the United States

I'd suggest you go through and read the U.N. Charter more thoroughly: any member nation is permitted to convict the citizens of another member nation when the lives or well-being of its own citizenry have been violated.

I suggest you read the Supreme Court ruling on Reid v Covert (1957).  The ruling clarified the supremacy of the U.S. Constitution over treaties ratified by the United States.  Therefore, the Constitution supercedes the UN Charter.  The next step would be to identify where a "crime" actually occurred (if one occurred at all).  Since these individuals were not captured in Spain, and the torture that is assumed to have taken place did not occur in Spain, Spain can only ask for those suspected of guilt to be extradited for a hearing.  With all that being the case, Spain doesn't have jurisdiction.

The US SC decision doesn't exactly have the jurisdiction over theSpanish gov't either Spain would, obviously, not be able to have them extradited from the US for prosecution. However, if I were one of those gentlemen, I would be seriously worried about going to Toronto or Baja: chances are, the Canadian or Mexican governments would not be that unreceptive to a Spanish extradition requests (and they don't feel subject to US court decisions either).

This does create a relevant precedent, at least by Mexican law, I believe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Miguel_Cavallo

[Scam of God]

Spain doesn't have jurisdiction over the United States

I'd suggest you go through and read the U.N. Charter more thoroughly: any member nation is permitted to convict the citizens of another member nation when the lives or well-being of its own citizenry have been violated.

I suggest you read the Supreme Court ruling on Reid v Covert (1957).  The ruling clarified the supremacy of the U.S. Constitution over treaties ratified by the United States.  Therefore, the Constitution supercedes the UN Charter.  The next step would be to identify where a "crime" actually occurred (if one occurred at all).  Since these individuals were not captured in Spain, and the torture that is assumed to have taken place did not occur in Spain, Spain can only ask for those suspected of guilt to be extradited for a hearing.  With all that being the case, Spain doesn't have jurisdiction.

The US SC decision doesn't exactly have the jurisdiction over theSpanish gov't either Spain would, obviously, not be able to have them extradited from the US for prosecution. However, if I were one of those gentlemen, I would be seriously worried about going to Toronto or Baja: chances are, the Canadian or Mexican governments would not be that unreceptive to a Spanish extradition requests (and they don't feel subject to US court decisions either).

This does create a relevant precedent, at least by Mexican law, I believe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Miguel_Cavallo

Moreover, nothing is preventing the Spanish government from engaging in irregular rendition out of the United States. We've used it often enough that it would be hypocritical to complain.

[ag]

Spain doesn't have jurisdiction over the United States

I'd suggest you go through and read the U.N. Charter more thoroughly: any member nation is permitted to convict the citizens of another member nation when the lives or well-being of its own citizenry have been violated.

I suggest you read the Supreme Court ruling on Reid v Covert (1957).  The ruling clarified the supremacy of the U.S. Constitution over treaties ratified by the United States.  Therefore, the Constitution supercedes the UN Charter.  The next step would be to identify where a "crime" actually occurred (if one occurred at all).  Since these individuals were not captured in Spain, and the torture that is assumed to have taken place did not occur in Spain, Spain can only ask for those suspected of guilt to be extradited for a hearing.  With all that being the case, Spain doesn't have jurisdiction.

The US SC decision doesn't exactly have the jurisdiction over theSpanish gov't either Spain would, obviously, not be able to have them extradited from the US for prosecution. However, if I were one of those gentlemen, I would be seriously worried about going to Toronto or Baja: chances are, the Canadian or Mexican governments would not be that unreceptive to a Spanish extradition requests (and they don't feel subject to US court decisions either).

This does create a relevant precedent, at least by Mexican law, I believe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Miguel_Cavallo

Moreover, nothing is preventing the Spanish government from engaging in irregular rendition out of the United States. We've used it often enough that it would be hypocritical to complain.

Well, Spanish gov't won't do that. Actually, Spanish gov't would, probably, prefer not to deal w/ that at all - but Spanish judiciary is another matter. Garzon doesn't have a capacity of ordering a paramilitary operation in the US - but he sure does have the capacity of issuing an arrest warrant, which a lot of countries would honor.

[jokerman]

Feith should be imprisoned for sheer stupidity (the neoconservatives don't even deserve him on their side); he's a cancer on the public sphere.

[ag]

BTW, if I am understanding the Spanish law on this right, there is a very easy way of getting any Spanish proceedings quashed: it would be enough to credibly prosecute the same people in the US: given the precedent, if the US decides to do so, Spanish law would imply that US jurisdiction has precedence. But it would have to be a credible prosecution (to the satisfaction of Spanish courts).

[Scam of God]

Spain doesn't have jurisdiction over the United States

I'd suggest you go through and read the U.N. Charter more thoroughly: any member nation is permitted to convict the citizens of another member nation when the lives or well-being of its own citizenry have been violated.

I suggest you read the Supreme Court ruling on Reid v Covert (1957).  The ruling clarified the supremacy of the U.S. Constitution over treaties ratified by the United States.  Therefore, the Constitution supercedes the UN Charter.  The next step would be to identify where a "crime" actually occurred (if one occurred at all).  Since these individuals were not captured in Spain, and the torture that is assumed to have taken place did not occur in Spain, Spain can only ask for those suspected of guilt to be extradited for a hearing.  With all that being the case, Spain doesn't have jurisdiction.

The US SC decision doesn't exactly have the jurisdiction over theSpanish gov't either Spain would, obviously, not be able to have them extradited from the US for prosecution. However, if I were one of those gentlemen, I would be seriously worried about going to Toronto or Baja: chances are, the Canadian or Mexican governments would not be that unreceptive to a Spanish extradition requests (and they don't feel subject to US court decisions either).

This does create a relevant precedent, at least by Mexican law, I believe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Miguel_Cavallo

Moreover, nothing is preventing the Spanish government from engaging in irregular rendition out of the United States. We've used it often enough that it would be hypocritical to complain.

Well, Spanish gov't won't do that. Actually, Spanish gov't would, probably, prefer not to deal w/ that at all - but Spanish judiciary is another matter. Garzon doesn't have a capacity of ordering a paramilitary operation in the US - but he sure does have the capacity of issuing an arrest warrant, which a lot of countries would honor.

If they put out a warrant on any of these guys, I'd be happy to try to bring one of them in myself, especially if there's a large bounty on them. Of course that's just whimsy, but I'm sure there are a lot of people here in the States who'd try.

[ag]

Spain doesn't have jurisdiction over the United States

I'd suggest you go through and read the U.N. Charter more thoroughly: any member nation is permitted to convict the citizens of another member nation when the lives or well-being of its own citizenry have been violated.

I suggest you read the Supreme Court ruling on Reid v Covert (1957).  The ruling clarified the supremacy of the U.S. Constitution over treaties ratified by the United States.  Therefore, the Constitution supercedes the UN Charter.  The next step would be to identify where a "crime" actually occurred (if one occurred at all).  Since these individuals were not captured in Spain, and the torture that is assumed to have taken place did not occur in Spain, Spain can only ask for those suspected of guilt to be extradited for a hearing.  With all that being the case, Spain doesn't have jurisdiction.

The US SC decision doesn't exactly have the jurisdiction over theSpanish gov't either Spain would, obviously, not be able to have them extradited from the US for prosecution. However, if I were one of those gentlemen, I would be seriously worried about going to Toronto or Baja: chances are, the Canadian or Mexican governments would not be that unreceptive to a Spanish extradition requests (and they don't feel subject to US court decisions either).

This does create a relevant precedent, at least by Mexican law, I believe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Miguel_Cavallo

Moreover, nothing is preventing the Spanish government from engaging in irregular rendition out of the United States. We've used it often enough that it would be hypocritical to complain.

Well, Spanish gov't won't do that. Actually, Spanish gov't would, probably, prefer not to deal w/ that at all - but Spanish judiciary is another matter. Garzon doesn't have a capacity of ordering a paramilitary operation in the US - but he sure does have the capacity of issuing an arrest warrant, which a lot of countries would honor.

If they put out a warrant on any of these guys, I'd be happy to try to bring one of them in myself, especially if there's a large bounty on them. Of course that's just whimsy, but I'm sure there are a lot of people here in the States who'd try.

Don't. It would be illegal by any law, it would only create problems for the prosecution, and you yourself would go to prison (whether US or Spanish - few countries like private citizens doing such things).