Should transgender people tell their sexual partners they are transgender?

[dead0man]

(I wasn't sure where to put this, none of the forums seem to fit well.)

Would it be ethical not to?

..and no, I didn't have an exciting weekend or anything like that, just something I read on another forum and thought it might lead to an interesting discussion here.

[Platypus]

They are the gender they are. They have no obligation to say that they were anything other than that.

[dead0man]

At what point do you tell somebody your with that you were once a chick?  After the third date?  Right before you start going "steady"?  Right before you propose?  On the Honeymoon?  Never?

[Alcon]

I don't think they have an ethical responsibility to, no.  It would be hard for it to not come up in a LTR without deceit.  Crappy situation.  I can't entirely blame people for being "turned off" by finding that kind of thing out about their partners, but anyone who would become incensed or openly disgusted should be ashamed of himself/herself.

[Gustaf]

I don't think they have an ethical responsibility to, no.  It would be hard for it to not come up in a LTR without deceit.  Crappy situation.  I can't entirely blame people for being "turned off" by finding that kind of thing out about their partners, but anyone who would become incensed or openly disgusted should be ashamed of himself/herself.

Why should you be ashamed of being disgusted with something? Do you consider that a choice?

[dead0man]

I don't think they have an ethical responsibility to, no.  It would be hard for it to not come up in a LTR without deceit.  Crappy situation.  I can't entirely blame people for being "turned off" by finding that kind of thing out about their partners, but anyone who would become incensed or openly disgusted should be ashamed of himself/herself.

Why should you be ashamed of being disgusted with something? Do you consider that a choice?

I started to post this as well but then I reread what Alcon posted.  I think he is agreeing with you (us).  He just thinks people should be ashamed if, when they find out the girl they've been hitting on was born a dude, their first reaction is violence or openly disgusted.  I might have a hard time hiding the initial disgust, but becoming a dick about it isn't the best course of action.


Now, if they tell you afterwords....I don't know.  I probably wouldn't be violent, but I'd certainly be pissed and would end the relationship post haste.


(unless I've missunderstood one or both of you)

[Brittain33]

There are different angles on "should." Setting aside the ethics of the issue, it's not sustainable to have a relationship with someone and hide or misrepresent very large parts of your past. Generally it's a bad idea to outright lie, assuming you can get away with it. Calpernia Addams, who was the girlfriend of the soldier killed in Kentucky a decade ago and went on to have her own reality tv dating show, said she tells men on the third date. Presumably this means that she's not getting intimate before then.

[A18]

A "transgendered" person should certainly have the decency to tell the other person his actual sex. But then, he shouldn't be "transgendered."

[RI]

A "transgendered" person should certainly have the decency to tell the other person his actual sex. But then, he shouldn't be "transgendered."

What.

[A18]

That.

[Rowan]

So you go to have sex and you find out you both have dicks? Sorry, homie don't play like that.

[Brittain33]

...

I kind of alluded to this by talking about passing. If you're pre-op, yeah, honesty and disclosure are important. People in this situation tend to know how uncomfortable it makes other people and is pretty much a non-starter. (I'm reminded of my brother telling me a few years ago, you know, no offense, but you should know Mom isn't super comfortable with your being gay. We are aware of things like that!)

I have friends who are transgendered and one trait I admire in them is how they maintain their dignity and integrity in a culture that does everything it can to tear them down and treat them as something less than human. They're individuals who have had to fight very hard to get to where they are, starting with their own conceptions of themselves and working through family, friends, coworkers, and finally to the strangers we have to deal with every day, many of whom have no idea what being trans means and don't care to find out. There's a common tendency to laugh at the idea of transpeople, because the mechanics of it are different and strange to those who never had to think about it, but I think it's a good idea to remember that they are as human as any of us, and been through much more difficult tests than most of us.

[Franzl]

I'd certainly want to know.

(no offense to transgenders....but, ummm......that'd make me sick)

[Earth]

Assuming they're pre-op, then yes.

[Gustaf]

I don't think they have an ethical responsibility to, no.  It would be hard for it to not come up in a LTR without deceit.  Crappy situation.  I can't entirely blame people for being "turned off" by finding that kind of thing out about their partners, but anyone who would become incensed or openly disgusted should be ashamed of himself/herself.

Why should you be ashamed of being disgusted with something? Do you consider that a choice?

I started to post this as well but then I reread what Alcon posted.  I think he is agreeing with you (us).  He just thinks people should be ashamed if, when they find out the girl they've been hitting on was born a dude, their first reaction is violence or openly disgusted.  I might have a hard time hiding the initial disgust, but becoming a dick about it isn't the best course of action.


Now, if they tell you afterwords....I don't know.  I probably wouldn't be violent, but I'd certainly be pissed and would end the relationship post haste.


(unless I've missunderstood one or both of you)

Yeah, I see what you mean there. While I agree that one should be as polite and respectful as possible (and that goes regardless of the specifics of a rejection) it may be hard to hide, I don't know. But, yeah, reading it again, I think I'm in agreement. 

[platypeanArchcow]

To no one in particular, but anyone who's going to say that transgender people shouldn't exist:

People don't become transgender or transsexual on a whim.  It's really painful and takes up a lot of time, because they essentially have to go through a second puberty.  I know someone who worked two full-time jobs while being a full-time student in order to save money for her operation.  Her only contact with her parents was their paying her tuition.  It was really eye-opening for me when she came out, because I understand now just how big a deal it is for such people, enough to sacrifice family and years of labor.  Saying "they shouldn't do this" is really disrespectful.

[A18]

People don't become transgender or transsexual on a whim.

Presumably not. It scarcely follows, however, that their decision is a morally-appropriate one.

[Earth]

People don't become transgender or transsexual on a whim.

Presumably not. It scarcely follows, however, that their decision is a morally-appropriate one.

Do you want to offer some sort of rational justification, or just keep spouting crap?

[A18]

"[R]ational justification" for what? My assessment that it's immoral?

Like my opposition to mass murder and torture, it is grounded squarely in intuition. It is one of the paradigmatic cases from which I try to deduce general principles; and to that extent, might be called "basic." Because I doubt any of our readers subscribe to the same general principles, I see no benefit in laying them out.

[Brittain33]

"[R]ational justification" for what? My assessment that it's immoral?

Like my opposition to mass murder and torture, it is grounded squarely in intuition. It is one of the paradigmatic cases from which I try to deduce general principles; and to that extent, might be called "basic." Because I doubt any of our readers subscribe to the same general principles, I see no benefit in laying them out.

I'm curious what kind of intellectual principle underlies opposition to both. In the case of mass murder and torture, you're harming other people. That's the gut "intuition" for most people why they are wrong. That doesn't extend to people transitioning gender, at least not without some tortuous redefinition.

[A18]

Certainly, it does not involve the use of force. But if we can accept the non-aggression principle by way of moral intuition, why can't other ethical norms receive the same treatment?

[Earth]

"[R]ational justification" for what? My assessment that it's immoral?

Yeah.

Like my opposition to mass murder and torture, it is grounded squarely in intuition.

Obviously. It's funny you use those examples in this.

Because I doubt any of our readers subscribe to the same general principles, I see no benefit in laying them out.

Essentially because you have nothing noteworthy to respond.

[A18]

All moral norms are grounded in intuition. Is it your position that the field of morality itself should be abandoned?

[Eraserhead]

They should tell people beforehand, pre or post-op, at least imo.

[Earth]

All moral norms are grounded in intuition. Is it your position that the field of morality itself should be abandoned?

My position is that it's entirely ridiculous to base transsexualism on morality. It tends to underscore other ridiculous presumptions.